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Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old December 15th 13, 12:00 PM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Kalico[_3_]
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Posts: 10
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going

I hope this is not posted in the 'wrong' place.

We have a 2003 Honda CRV. Great car in most respects except that it is a pain to start. It gives all the symptoms like a car with a carb would if it were flooded.

I've had it to the local garage who claimed their computer diagnostics said it was the camshaft sensor. So they replaced those and also the crankshaft sensor.

Logic told me that it could not be either of those sensors since it ran sweet as a nut once started. A friend suggested it could be an air inlet control valve, but this hasn't been replaced.

The garage called me (a bit sheepishly) and asked to return the car as they couldn't fix it. They said they were at a loss and thought it might be the ECU.

It could well be the ECU, but before I spend a fortune on one of those, or take it to the Honda dealer to have a look, then I thought I'd post here.

Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you could wish for, idles fine and drives well.

In fact, for a car with 110k on the clock it is superb. I'd buy a new one based on that experience. But this starting issue is a real pain and since the garage brought it back it is worse than ever.

My gut instinct is telling me it's something to do with fuel feed and the computer over-compensating then backing off and that cycle repeats. Boy do I hanker after the days when I could just dismantle a carb and clean it all out. Hey ho!

Thanks for any help or steer anyone can give me.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old December 15th 13, 12:29 PM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Chris Whelan
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Posts: 5,410
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:00:54 -0800, Kalico wrote:

I hope this is not posted in the 'wrong' place.


You could possibly also try uk.rec.cars.maintenance, but I would guess
most regulars read both.

We have a 2003 Honda CRV. Great car in most respects except that it is a
pain to start. It gives all the symptoms like a car with a carb would if
it were flooded.

I've had it to the local garage who claimed their computer diagnostics
said it was the camshaft sensor. So they replaced those and also the
crankshaft sensor.

Logic told me that it could not be either of those sensors since it ran
sweet as a nut once started.


Many cars only need the cam sensor for starting.

A friend suggested it could be an air
inlet control valve, but this hasn't been replaced.


If so, it would start OK with just a touch of throttle. Is that the case?

The garage called me (a bit sheepishly) and asked to return the car as
they couldn't fix it. They said they were at a loss and thought it
might be the ECU.


That's the standard response of a garage that has run out of ideas. It
would be at the bottom of my list of possibilities.

It could well be the ECU, but before I spend a fortune on one of those,
or take it to the Honda dealer to have a look, then I thought I'd post
here.

Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out.
The trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs
high at first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet
as you could wish for, idles fine and drives well.


That might suggest the idle air control valve then.

In fact, for a car with 110k on the clock it is superb. I'd buy a new
one based on that experience. But this starting issue is a real pain
and since the garage brought it back it is worse than ever.

My gut instinct is telling me it's something to do with fuel feed and
the computer over-compensating then backing off and that cycle repeats.
Boy do I hanker after the days when I could just dismantle a carb and
clean it all out. Hey ho!

Thanks for any help or steer anyone can give me.


Does it do it hot or cold, or both? Is it less of a problem when warm?

Have you tried to find an independent Honda specialist? If you give a
rough idea of location, someone here might know of one.

Chris

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old December 16th 13, 05:40 PM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Tim..[_3_]
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Posts: 209
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going


"Kalico" wrote in message
...
I hope this is not posted in the 'wrong' place.

We have a 2003 Honda CRV. Great car in most respects except that it is a
pain to start. It gives all the symptoms like a car with a carb would if it
were flooded.

I've had it to the local garage who claimed their computer diagnostics said
it was the camshaft sensor. So they replaced those and also the crankshaft
sensor.

Logic told me that it could not be either of those sensors since it ran
sweet as a nut once started. A friend suggested it could be an air inlet
control valve, but this hasn't been replaced.

The garage called me (a bit sheepishly) and asked to return the car as they
couldn't fix it. They said they were at a loss and thought it might be the
ECU.

It could well be the ECU, but before I spend a fortune on one of those, or
take it to the Honda dealer to have a look, then I thought I'd post here.

Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The
trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you could
wish for, idles fine and drives well.

In fact, for a car with 110k on the clock it is superb. I'd buy a new one
based on that experience. But this starting issue is a real pain and since
the garage brought it back it is worse than ever.

My gut instinct is telling me it's something to do with fuel feed and the
computer over-compensating then backing off and that cycle repeats. Boy do
I hanker after the days when I could just dismantle a carb and clean it all
out. Hey ho!

Thanks for any help or steer anyone can give me.


Right, so does it give "flooded" symtpoms EVERY time it's shut off and
restarted after several minutes?? Is it more pronounced when a hot restart
is attempted? Does the exhaust smell 'rich' when started??

If YES to all of these then, you have at least one leaking injector, or more
likely a puntured pressure regulator diaphragm which is letting fuel into
the manifold through the sense hose. Pull this off to check. A pressure
gauge on the schraeder valve on the rail will show what the pressure is
doing upon shut down, it should hold at just under running pressure (45psi
I think on these) for several minutes at least. If it plummets, then
obviously there is a leak and fuel's ending up in the manifold.

I would also expect you to be reporting heavy fuel consumption too, and if
we were to get more technical, long term fuel trims stored in the ECU to be
big negetive values.

If my description doesnt match your symptoms almost exactly, and your tests
reveal no fuel in the vac line and a holding residual fuel pressure, then we
need to go elsewhere.

Oh and find another garage if they cant diagnose this simple fault.

Tim..

  #4 (permalink)  
Old December 17th 13, 07:36 PM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
shazzbat
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Posts: 1,112
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going

Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The
trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you could
wish for, idles fine and drives well.

I know a mercedes sprinter van with the same symptom. It has been like that
since new, and both the fleet managers and the dealers have failed to fix
it. Let me know if you get a result, Sainsbury's would like to know.

Steve





  #5 (permalink)  
Old December 17th 13, 09:10 PM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Peter Hill
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Posts: 2,102
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going

On 17/12/2013 20:36, shazzbat wrote:
Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The
trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you could
wish for, idles fine and drives well.

I know a mercedes sprinter van with the same symptom. It has been like that
since new, and both the fleet managers and the dealers have failed to fix
it. Let me know if you get a result, Sainsbury's would like to know.

Steve


There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.

If it's petrol then it could be hot start enrichment stuck on. Older EFi
systems had a solenoid that switched the fuel pressure reg vac source to
before the throttle for hot start.

--
Peter Hill
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old December 18th 13, 07:33 AM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Chris Whelan
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Posts: 5,410
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:10:02 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:

[...]

There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.


I'd assumed petrol; do diesels have an idle air control valve?

If it's petrol then it could be hot start enrichment stuck on. Older EFi
systems had a solenoid that switched the fuel pressure reg vac source to
before the throttle for hot start.


Don't *think* the '03 CRV has that?

Chris

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Remove prejudice to reply.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old December 18th 13, 08:16 AM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Peter Hill
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Posts: 2,102
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going

On 18/12/2013 08:33, Chris Whelan wrote:
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:10:02 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:

[...]

There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.


I'd assumed petrol; do diesels have an idle air control valve?


No. They run wide open. An idle control valve only applies to a petrol.

So it is petrol.

Mate has a Diesel one, can't find a workshop manual. Seems it was
European market only.


--
Peter Hill
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old December 18th 13, 08:36 AM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Chris Whelan
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Posts: 5,410
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:16:21 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:

On 18/12/2013 08:33, Chris Whelan wrote:
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:10:02 +0000, Peter Hill wrote:

[...]

There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The
1st thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age
that has them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a
Diesel increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector
quicker.


I'd assumed petrol; do diesels have an idle air control valve?


No. They run wide open. An idle control valve only applies to a petrol.

So it is petrol.


Yep. OP's car is '03; no diesel until '05:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/honda/cr-v-2002/

Chris

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Remove prejudice to reply.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old December 21st 13, 04:04 PM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Tim..[_3_]
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Posts: 209
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going


"Peter Hill" wrote in message
...
On 17/12/2013 20:36, shazzbat wrote:
Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out. The
trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you
could
wish for, idles fine and drives well.

I know a mercedes sprinter van with the same symptom. It has been like
that
since new, and both the fleet managers and the dealers have failed to fix
it. Let me know if you get a result, Sainsbury's would like to know.

Steve


There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The 1st
thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age that has
them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a Diesel
increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.


This is a 2.0 l petrol engine!

tim.

  #10 (permalink)  
Old December 21st 13, 06:43 PM posted to uk.rec.cars.misc
Peter Hill
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Posts: 2,102
Default Honda CRV poor starting - runs fine once going

On 21/12/2013 17:04, Tim.. wrote:

"Peter Hill" wrote in message
...
On 17/12/2013 20:36, shazzbat wrote:
Symptoms are that it'll turn over, fire, then splutter and conk out.
The
trick to starting is to floor the pedal and then it'll go. Revs high at
first then settles into usual running. Like I say, runs sweet as you
could
wish for, idles fine and drives well.

I know a mercedes sprinter van with the same symptom. It has been
like that
since new, and both the fleet managers and the dealers have failed to
fix
it. Let me know if you get a result, Sainsbury's would like to know.

Steve


There are a lot of posts in u.r.c.m for Diesels with this issue. The
1st thing is to check and replace the spill tubes if it's of an age
that has them. Common rail Diesels don't. Flooring the throttle on a
Diesel increases the fuel flow, so purges air from the injector quicker.


This is a 2.0 l petrol engine!

tim.


That was established 3 days ago.

I'd missed the giveaway of it having an air inlet control valve.


--
Peter Hill
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