Lets not all forget that this system has been running in germany for years
and they know a thing or two about cars. And also VW has been known to sell
a few fleet cars in its time so fleet managers will always weigh up costs of
ownership even if they only keep the cars a few years.

Its does rely on a sensor to monitor the oil i believe but if it does fail i
would not be surprised is a large £ symbol flashes on the dashboard display
to inform you of impending robbery......;-)



"AstraVanMan" wrote in message
...
but I'd rather spend a tiny bit
more and have it done regularly just for my peace of mind, and have an
engine that still sounds really sweet at 300k, 400k, 500k etc., than
one
that still runs but really shows its age.

But you'd only tell if you actually kept the car for more than 2 months
:-)

Heh!

(is the Audi the car you've owned the longest yet?)

Erm...not quite I don't think. I had the Carlton CDX for about 15 months
I
think. Mind you, the first Carlton I had for thinks, ah, not as long,
think about 7-8 months all in all, though it wasn't in regular use for a
month and a bit, then I got a really mint Carlton, wrote that off, then
went
back to using the old one until someone drove into it. I got the Audi
towards the end of last October, so that's 9 1/2 months so far.
Definitely
the most expensive car I've ever bought, and still the most likely to be
kept for a long time.

Peter

Tony wrote:
"AstraVanMan" wrote in message
...
snip

Certainly makes me worry less about my 5-cylinder A6 that hasn't
had
an oil change in 8000 miles (forget exactly what brand of oil I
used, but it had the appropriate VW spec numbers on it).

My opinion as a NON-vw driver but former owner of several. 8000
miles
doesn't sound like anything to be concerned with by the way, whats
the usual interval?
Variable servicing sounds like a sales ploy to me, veinly disguised
as a benefit to the customer.

It is an effective technology package which significantly lowers the
total lifetime running cost of the vehicle at the expense of a higher
production and purchase cost. No disguising needed.



Long term though, getting lax about
servicing could hit you right in the pocket.

Not relevant in this context though.


While in actuality quality of driving might make some effect as to
how long the oil lasts, do you really want to risk long term damage
of your engine on the whim of a sensor that *could* be miscalibrated
like any other electrical sensor has a potential for faults
(although
i guess you'd pick this up).

Any sensor or component fault would flag up an early service, which
makes the system [for a system is what it is] failsafe.



Extending oils service life (which this
seems to be aimed to do more than lessening it) can't always be a
GOOD thing ? Any trade professionals care to comment. How many
people
really extend the life of their oil, as opposed to degredate it with
their driving patterns I wonder?

I do not understand your logic. *Any* oil change interval is a
scientific judgement based on averages, but extended intervals as used
by VW use better engines and significantly better filtration combined
with very specific oils while the whole system is monitored and
intervals modified according to *measured* parameters.


My skoda fab only tends to generally
be run on good motorway runs, not driven hard if I can help it but I
do the odd *only a mile or two* to work when its raining - which I
try and avoid.

I like the idea of solidly knowing when you have to take your car in
to be serviced right on cue, makes me feel like I prioritise the
servicing of my vehicle well. This scheme maybe useful for haggling
down second hand prices later on though on vehcile with large gaps
in
servicing intervals (though frankly, I don't think I'd want a
vehicle
that has had its sevicing skimped in early driving history, thanks).


Again, your use of the word "skimping" is obviously not relevant.
Also there is NO adverse effect on any vehicles serviced according to
these systems. On the contrary, a service history with an Audi BMW or
Mercedes fitted with these systems enhance the resale value, which are
amongst the best in the motor industry. Such service intervals are now
very well established and proven over a long term. There is nothing
but benefit to the consumer while the dealer suffers in not seeing the
customer at all often so has less chance of selling him added value
goods and services.

Huw

Huw


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chillypenguin wrote:
Well at 4 months old, my Touran (130 TDi) has just asked for its
first
service, at 18000 miles.

With the high miles that I cover variable servicing will reduce by
over 1/3 the visits to the dealer.

My only concern is if the oil will last out 18000 between changes,
but with all the long / high speed mileage most of the oil
contaminates like water are driven out.

If the oil was contaminated then the service interval would be
automatically shortened to suit.



The old fixed interval servicing is normal based on lunar cycles,
i.e. one year or average miles covered on one year. Is that really a
good guide to when a car requires service. or just the maximum
frequency acceptable to most drivers.


Normal milage and time based intervals are for average driving with a
fair safety factor built in. Educated guesswork really, no more, no
less.

The extended service interval is also overridden by a time factor of
two years if approaching average annual milage is driven. IIRC vey low
milage drivers are advised to use the alternative schedule using
cheaper [normal] oil of one yearly changes.




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AstraVanMan wrote:
but I'd rather spend a tiny bit
more and have it done regularly just for my peace of mind, and
have
an engine that still sounds really sweet at 300k, 400k, 500k etc.,
than one that still runs but really shows its age.

But you'd only tell if you actually kept the car for more than 2
months :-)

Heh!

(is the Audi the car you've owned the longest yet?)

Erm...not quite I don't think. I had the Carlton CDX for about 15
months I think. Mind you, the first Carlton I had for thinks, ah,
not as long, think about 7-8 months all in all, though it wasn't in
regular use for a month and a bit, then I got a really mint Carlton,
wrote that off, then went back to using the old one until someone
drove into it. I got the Audi towards the end of last October, so
that's 9 1/2 months so far. Definitely the most expensive car I've
ever bought, and still the most likely to be kept for a long time.

Peter

And a 'long time' is likely to be "an
engine that still sounds really sweet at 300k, 400k, 500k etc." in
your care?

I don't think so somehow ;-)

Huw


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S Gibber wrote:
Lets not all forget that this system has been running in germany for
years and they know a thing or two about cars. And also VW has been
known to sell a few fleet cars in its time so fleet managers will
always weigh up costs of ownership even if they only keep the cars a
few years.

Its does rely on a sensor to monitor the oil i believe but if it
does
fail i would not be surprised is a large £ symbol flashes on the
dashboard display to inform you of impending robbery......;-)


It relies on various sensors, some of which are there for other
purposes anyhow, to supply a computer which is programmed for an
engine type using a specific oil type. Yes the oil condition itself is
also monitored dynamically by measuring its resistance and the
information is used to modify the change interval. Also measured are
number of cold starts and plain, simple time itself.
I am not sure that there is a stand alone computer for this. Most
likely the function is integrated into the engine management computer
which collects and computes all operating parameters while feeding
control signals to both engine components and dashboard displays. In
other words, there are actually very few *extra* components associated
with this cost saving technology.

Huw


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Come on Huw, you must be an employee of VW or at least sell them.......;-)

You must know, as people on this forum know, the electrics of vehicles are
just another area of possible failure. As you mentioned the vehicle may not
have many more components then a car without the variable service option its
still has a few more. While I like to believe that variable service is a
good thing, a possible max of 2 years (30000miles) between services may end
up costing people alot of money.A yearly service is inconvenient to some
people but it can be vital to spot problems before they can become serious
or even dangerous. Most people may be able to spot problems themselves but
others don't have the necessary skills. True the MOT is still bloody yearly
on 3+ year old cars and this could end up costing a bit if the car has not
been checked before going in but this would not necessarily spot all
potential problems.

Just my thoughts.....



"Huw" wrote in message
...
S Gibber wrote:
Lets not all forget that this system has been running in germany for
years and they know a thing or two about cars. And also VW has been
known to sell a few fleet cars in its time so fleet managers will
always weigh up costs of ownership even if they only keep the cars a
few years.

Its does rely on a sensor to monitor the oil i believe but if it
does
fail i would not be surprised is a large £ symbol flashes on the
dashboard display to inform you of impending robbery......;-)


It relies on various sensors, some of which are there for other
purposes anyhow, to supply a computer which is programmed for an
engine type using a specific oil type. Yes the oil condition itself is
also monitored dynamically by measuring its resistance and the
information is used to modify the change interval. Also measured are
number of cold starts and plain, simple time itself.
I am not sure that there is a stand alone computer for this. Most
likely the function is integrated into the engine management computer
which collects and computes all operating parameters while feeding
control signals to both engine components and dashboard displays. In
other words, there are actually very few *extra* components associated
with this cost saving technology.

Huw


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"Huw" wrote in message
...
There is nothing
but benefit to the consumer while the dealer suffers in not seeing the
customer at all often so has less chance of selling him added value
goods and services.

Where can I get one of these things fitted to my 1983 180000M+ GTI?

Jeff

"S Gibber" wrote in message
...
Come on Huw, you must be an employee of VW or at least sell
them.......;-)

Nope. I don't even like Volksvagens. Have owned three, but the last
was a nasty [to drive] Audi 90 Quattro bought in '88 and sold two
years later. I have never been impressed by their product.




You must know, as people on this forum know, the electrics of
vehicles are
just another area of possible failure. As you mentioned the vehicle
may not
have many more components then a car without the variable service
option its
still has a few more.

All cars have an increasing amount of electrics and that is driven
primarily by emmission and safety legistlation. There is no getting
away from this in the Western World.
There are remarkably few electionic or electrical problems in modern
cars considering the systems in place, from central locking and alarms
[the worse offenders perhaps], to electric mirrors and windows to abs
and stability controls to engine and transmission management systems
[of which service computing is increasingly an integral part].
My Land Cruiser, which has electric almost everything, including
steering column and suspension, has only had a brake light blow in six
years. My BMW, in contrast, has failed due to a mysterious flat
battery and a fuel injector while having an incurable wheel alignment
problem in 18 months. No problem with any of the more sophisticated
systems though.

It could be that an old car with such sophistication will present a
third owner with the occasional uneconomic repair cost, but the
service monitoring system will not be such a cause. It is perfectly
possible, after all, to ignore the system and change the oil at [say]
every 10,000 miles or one year if one is so inclined.


While I like to believe that variable service is a
good thing, a possible max of 2 years (30000miles) between services
may end
up costing people alot of money.

I cannot see how. The driver continues to be responsible for regular
checks on such things as fluid levels and tyre condition and the
general roadworthiness of the car, as ever.



Huw


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While I like to believe that variable service is a
good thing, a possible max of 2 years (30000miles) between services
may end
up costing people alot of money.

I cannot see how. The driver continues to be responsible for regular
checks on such things as fluid levels and tyre condition and the
general roadworthiness of the car, as ever.

I agree but a large number of drivers never open the bonnet. Then you have
the drivers who might top up the windscreen wash. Just from conversations
with colleagues I guess that less than 10% of drivers actually check things
like fluids & tyres.

Dave wrote:
While I like to believe that variable service is a
good thing, a possible max of 2 years (30000miles) between
services
may end up costing people alot of money.

I cannot see how. The driver continues to be responsible for
regular
checks on such things as fluid levels and tyre condition and the
general roadworthiness of the car, as ever.

I agree but a large number of drivers never open the bonnet. Then
you
have the drivers who might top up the windscreen wash. Just from
conversations with colleagues I guess that less than 10% of drivers
actually check things like fluids & tyres.

Then, no matter what the service interval, they are negligent and
should expect early and steep costs. They deserve it and are unfit to
be in charge of a wheelbarrow, let alone a high speed potential
killing machine.

Huw



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