As it seems traditional here if you have a courtesy car:

Basic Fox, 1.2, 55bhp, 80ft/lb.

It's not quick. By a good margin. It will go fast enough to get you
nicked on the motorway if the copper is feeling unhappy, but there's a
fair old load of mechanical thrash. As there is is you try to accelerate
any faster than 'in a leisurely manner'. Lets face it though, it's a
1.2L 3-cyl shopping trolley.

It's not economical in my hands, but I suspect it could be if you have
lots of spare time.

It's very basic: manual windows, no aircon, no central locking. No STD,
but several cupholders of the non-folding variety.

Reasonably built, dash plastics a bit cheap but not awful, seat cloth
OK, seats themselves pretty standard boggo VAG, so a bit firm for some.
Handling and brakes ok for a shopping trolley, in fact, not bad at all
considering. Controls light but not over-light. Radio bearable and does
MP3s if you like that kind of thing. Boot bigger than the laughable one
in a Lupo.

Feels far too big from behind the wheel: It's about a foot longer than
the Lupo, a bit shorter than the Fabia, feels bigger than both, and as
usual these days, the bonnet is invisible from the drivers seat.

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news
As it seems traditional here if you have a courtesy car:

Basic Fox, 1.2, 55bhp, 80ft/lb.

It's not quick. By a good margin. It will go fast enough to get you nicked
on the motorway if the copper is feeling unhappy, but there's a fair old
load of mechanical thrash. As there is is you try to accelerate any faster
than 'in a leisurely manner'. Lets face it though, it's a 1.2L 3-cyl
shopping trolley.


That's not as horrific as the one the garage let me use for 3 days while
my car was being fixed. It had an ECU fault and cost them a fortune
to sort under warranty!
I had to drive a Daewoo Matiz which is a 3 cylinder 800cc engine.
I only took it out in the dark. It was fluorescent kermit green.

It's not economical in my hands, but I suspect it could be if you have
lots of spare time.

It's very basic: manual windows, no aircon, no central locking. No STD,
but several cupholders of the non-folding variety.

Reasonably built, dash plastics a bit cheap but not awful, seat cloth OK,
seats themselves pretty standard boggo VAG, so a bit firm for some.
Handling and brakes ok for a shopping trolley, in fact, not bad at all
considering. Controls light but not over-light. Radio bearable and does
MP3s if you like that kind of thing. Boot bigger than the laughable one in
a Lupo.

Feels far too big from behind the wheel: It's about a foot longer than the
Lupo, a bit shorter than the Fabia, feels bigger than both, and as usual
these days, the bonnet is invisible from the drivers seat.

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news
As it seems traditional here if you have a courtesy car:

Basic Fox, 1.2, 55bhp, 80ft/lb.

I tried the same car last autumn, not long after it was released. But at
the time I didn't want to post into Usenet because I was probably having a
go at some people who post mini reviews just to prove that they don't just
drive their CO2 company car whoremobile. Not you, obviously.

It's not quick. By a good margin. It will go fast enough to get you nicked
on the motorway if the copper is feeling unhappy, but there's a fair old
load of mechanical thrash. As there is is you try to accelerate any faster
than 'in a leisurely manner'. Lets face it though, it's a 1.2L 3-cyl
shopping trolley.

However... it has a workable power band; none of this needing to use the mid
to high end of the rev range. Given what it is and what it sets out to do,
it works well for a city car.

It's not economical in my hands, but I suspect it could be if you have
lots of spare time.

Bit of an injustice given its likely competitors really... the 1.2's book
consumption figures are 36 / 54 / 46. It weighs over a tonne so has 100 kg
over the equivalent Ka, but it's bigger.

It's very basic: manual windows, no aircon, no central locking. No STD,
but several cupholders of the non-folding variety.

And a huge big black dashboard; air conditioning is a very expensive option
given the list price of the car. Good heater, poor ventilation.

Reasonably built, dash plastics a bit cheap but not awful, seat cloth OK,
seats themselves pretty standard boggo VAG, so a bit firm for some.

Disappointing compared with the Arosa and Lupo... I like the dashboard for
its simplicity but didn't like the look of it.

Handling and brakes ok for a shopping trolley, in fact, not bad at all
considering.

Here's where I'm going to disagree. The ride isn't bad at all, but loses
composure on an undulating road at the speed limit. The handling is, I'm
sorry to say, typical VAG entry level stuff pre-mark five Golf. Soggy,
lacks composure, slow turn-in and a bit tail happy if you're a bit gung-ho
over roundabouts taken at too high a speed off the power. Think: superminis
from 15 years ago, when if you tried to tackle a roundabout at speed, the
rear end would fall over itself.

Controls light but not over-light. Radio bearable and does MP3s if you
like that kind of thing. Boot bigger than the laughable one in a Lupo.

Feels far too big from behind the wheel: It's about a foot longer than the
Lupo, a bit shorter than the Fabia, feels bigger than both, and as usual
these days, the bonnet is invisible from the drivers seat.

The size of the Fox is one of the key selling points, though. It's
considered to be in the Ka / Arosa / Lupo / Picanta class, but it's larger
inside than most. This kinda misses the point for me, personally; for two
people, the size of the rear seats is immaterial. Boot space is useful, but
most people* don't tend to travel across Europe in this class of car for
kicks. That isn't to say that I don't think it's a bad idea, it isn't, it's
a good idea - but the entry level Ibiza did the space thing, but better; did
the VAG engineering thing, had a nicer interior and was ~£300 cheaper before
we started haggling.

Anyway the case I made to Charlie was that the Fox makes sense on paper. It
probably won't depreciate much. It will probably be in as good condition in
2010 as 2007**, it will be thrifty nor should it break down or have trim
issues (not much to break down). On the motorway it works well and it
won't - ever - encourage me to take the B-road route to work.

But the entry level Ibiza offered the above in a better looking machine for
less money... and even though it would probably depreciate quicker, I'd
enjoy it more.

*www.dervman.com/kditaly.htm
**although that said, the only machine that I've run that wasn't in as good
condition after three years was either vandalised or had a Fiat badge on it.
:-)

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

DervMan wrote:
"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news
As it seems traditional here if you have a courtesy car:

Basic Fox, 1.2, 55bhp, 80ft/lb.

I tried the same car last autumn, not long after it was released. But at
the time I didn't want to post into Usenet because I was probably having a
go at some people who post mini reviews just to prove that they don't just
drive their CO2 company car whoremobile. Not you, obviously.

It's not quick. By a good margin. It will go fast enough to get you nicked
on the motorway if the copper is feeling unhappy, but there's a fair old
load of mechanical thrash. As there is is you try to accelerate any faster
than 'in a leisurely manner'. Lets face it though, it's a 1.2L 3-cyl
shopping trolley.

However... it has a workable power band; none of this needing to use the mid
to high end of the rev range. Given what it is and what it sets out to do,
it works well for a city car.

I agree. It's just I don't drive low-power city cars much. It really was
OK, considering.


It's not economical in my hands, but I suspect it could be if you have
lots of spare time.

Bit of an injustice given its likely competitors really... the 1.2's book
consumption figures are 36 / 54 / 46. It weighs over a tonne so has 100 kg
over the equivalent Ka, but it's bigger.

Again, to be fair, I thrashed it. I'd suspect it would be better if
treated better.

Incidentally, a colleague has a Ka, and reckons he's saved a fortune by
travelling accross Birmigham through the middle instead of down the M5
like I do. I think that would be reversed for my Fabia.


It's very basic: manual windows, no aircon, no central locking. No STD,
but several cupholders of the non-folding variety.

And a huge big black dashboard; air conditioning is a very expensive option
given the list price of the car. Good heater, poor ventilation.

didn't use the heater. Had the windows open lots. Aircon is stupid
expensive at over £900, like on a Lupo. £900 on a car costing £6400!!!!!!!


Reasonably built, dash plastics a bit cheap but not awful, seat cloth OK,
seats themselves pretty standard boggo VAG, so a bit firm for some.

Disappointing compared with the Arosa and Lupo... I like the dashboard for
its simplicity but didn't like the look of it.


A bit plasticky. True, not up to the Lupo, but the Fox *is* cheaper and
bigger.

Handling and brakes ok for a shopping trolley, in fact, not bad at all
considering.

Here's where I'm going to disagree. The ride isn't bad at all, but loses
composure on an undulating road at the speed limit. The handling is, I'm
sorry to say, typical VAG entry level stuff pre-mark five Golf. Soggy,
lacks composure, slow turn-in and a bit tail happy if you're a bit gung-ho
over roundabouts taken at too high a speed off the power. Think: superminis
from 15 years ago, when if you tried to tackle a roundabout at speed, the
rear end would fall over itself.


I was probably expecting handling like that on a budget VAG car :-).

Didn't get it in the twisties, just urban and M5. The back didn't feel
like it was going to let go on the sharpish bends near M5 J1/2, so felt
OK. I thought the turn in was OK, given the tyres and expectations, but
yes, not the most composed and a bit underdamped,

Controls light but not over-light. Radio bearable and does MP3s if you
like that kind of thing. Boot bigger than the laughable one in a Lupo.

Feels far too big from behind the wheel: It's about a foot longer than the
Lupo, a bit shorter than the Fabia, feels bigger than both, and as usual
these days, the bonnet is invisible from the drivers seat.

The size of the Fox is one of the key selling points, though. It's
considered to be in the Ka / Arosa / Lupo / Picanta class, but it's larger
inside than most. This kinda misses the point for me, personally; for two
people, the size of the rear seats is immaterial. Boot space is useful, but
most people* don't tend to travel across Europe in this class of car for
kicks. That isn't to say that I don't think it's a bad idea, it isn't, it's
a good idea - but the entry level Ibiza did the space thing, but better; did
the VAG engineering thing, had a nicer interior and was ~£300 cheaper before
we started haggling.


I'd agree. SWMBO quite liked it, but likes the size of the Lupo. For one
thing we have limited parking space, hence 2 small cars- anything bigger
than a Golf/A3 just won't fit. We rarely use the back seats- The Lupo's
have been used twice in 4 years.

Of course there are people who will just want the VW badge, and I
suspect that's why in the UK we only get the 1.2 or the 1.4 75bhp Fox,
so it doesn't compete with the Polo too much.


Anyway the case I made to Charlie was that the Fox makes sense on paper. It
probably won't depreciate much. It will probably be in as good condition in
2010 as 2007**, it will be thrifty nor should it break down or have trim
issues (not much to break down). On the motorway it works well and it
won't - ever - encourage me to take the B-road route to work.

But the entry level Ibiza offered the above in a better looking machine for
less money... and even though it would probably depreciate quicker, I'd
enjoy it more.

*www.dervman.com/kditaly.htm
**although that said, the only machine that I've run that wasn't in as good
condition after three years was either vandalised or had a Fiat badge on it.
:-)

DervMan wrote:

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news
As it seems traditional here if you have a courtesy car:

Basic Fox, 1.2, 55bhp, 80ft/lb.

I tried the same car last autumn, not long after it was released. But at
the time I didn't want to post into Usenet because I was probably having a
go at some people who post mini reviews just to prove that they don't just
drive their CO2 company car whoremobile. Not you, obviously.

You really are some kind of obsessive nut-job, aren't you?

It has been said before, but I'd seriously suggest some kind of mental
health evalution before it's too late.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

"SteveH" wrote in message
...
DervMan wrote:

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news
As it seems traditional here if you have a courtesy car:

Basic Fox, 1.2, 55bhp, 80ft/lb.

I tried the same car last autumn, not long after it was released. But at
the time I didn't want to post into Usenet because I was probably having
a
go at some people who post mini reviews just to prove that they don't
just
drive their CO2 company car whoremobile. Not you, obviously.

You really are some kind of obsessive nut-job, aren't you?

It has been said before, but I'd seriously suggest some kind of mental
health evalution before it's too late.


Not everything is about you - you appear to be some kind of self-obsessed
nut job.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

DervMan wrote:

"SteveH" wrote in message
...
DervMan wrote:

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news As it seems traditional here if you have a courtesy car:

Basic Fox, 1.2, 55bhp, 80ft/lb.

I tried the same car last autumn, not long after it was released. But at
the time I didn't want to post into Usenet because I was probably having
a
go at some people who post mini reviews just to prove that they don't
just
drive their CO2 company car whoremobile. Not you, obviously.

You really are some kind of obsessive nut-job, aren't you?

It has been said before, but I'd seriously suggest some kind of mental
health evalution before it's too late.


Not everything is about you - you appear to be some kind of self-obsessed
nut job.

Seriously, people *know* who you're posting about, and can see that, for
some screwed up reason, you feel you have to find a little snipe to have
here and there.

Now, I know I **** you off to a huge extent and I know you're not happy
that your wife chooses your car for you and I know that my budget and
pretty free choice of cars really gets to you, but that's no reason to
obsessively snipe about it at every opportunity you get on usenet.

It just makes you look like some kind of ****ed in the head freak.

Which probably isn't too far from the truth.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

"SteveH" wrote in message
. ..
DervMan wrote:

"SteveH" wrote in message
...
DervMan wrote:

"Chris Bartram" wrote in message
news As it seems traditional here if you have a courtesy car:

Basic Fox, 1.2, 55bhp, 80ft/lb.

I tried the same car last autumn, not long after it was released. But
at
the time I didn't want to post into Usenet because I was probably
having
a
go at some people who post mini reviews just to prove that they don't
just
drive their CO2 company car whoremobile. Not you, obviously.

You really are some kind of obsessive nut-job, aren't you?

It has been said before, but I'd seriously suggest some kind of mental
health evalution before it's too late.


Not everything is about you - you appear to be some kind of self-obsessed
nut job.

Seriously, people *know* who you're posting about, and can see that, for
some screwed up reason, you feel you have to find a little snipe to have
here and there.

Now, I know I **** you off to a huge extent and I know you're not happy
that your wife chooses your car for you and I know that my budget and
pretty free choice of cars really gets to you, but that's no reason to
obsessively snipe about it at every opportunity you get on usenet.

It just makes you look like some kind of ****ed in the head freak.

Which probably isn't too far from the truth.


Yadadadada, oh, you've finished now?

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

DervMan wrote:

It just makes you look like some kind of ****ed in the head freak.

Which probably isn't too far from the truth.


Yadadadada, oh, you've finished now?

gets bag of popcorn

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
DervMan wrote:

It just makes you look like some kind of ****ed in the head freak.

Which probably isn't too far from the truth.


Yadadadada, oh, you've finished now?

gets bag of popcorn

Heh. As I use Microsoft software running on a Microsoft operating system,
so my killfile occasionally stops killfiling.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com