I'm about to buy a new or second-hand diesel medium-size hatch/saloon.

Some time ago (I swear it was here) somebody complained that it cost
£1000 to refill an additive tank on a French diesel car (I can't
remember which) and I'm anxious to avoid cars which cost this kind of
money to service. I do 20,000 miles a year.

Do all modern diesels have these additive tanks?

Any suggestions about which to avoid?

Another Dave

Another Dave gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

Some time ago (I swear it was here) somebody complained that it cost
£1000 to refill an additive tank on a French diesel car (I can't
remember which)

If they did, then they were wrong. Unless they were also including the
cost of a replacement for a clogged particulate filter.

I do 20,000 miles a year.

What sort of mileage?

Do all modern diesels have these additive tanks?

No, relatively few do, but the really expensive bit is on virtually all.

There's three basic methods of reducing particulate emission. All work on
basically the same theory - filter and store the particulates then burn
them off when the opportunity arises.

Two use additives - AdBlu (common in trucks, might be in some Mercedes
cars), Eolys (Peugeot/Citroen, but only for a short while), whilst the
third just uses extra diesel fuel.

All wait until the exhaust gets properly hot-hot-hot, so tend to clog the
filters in short-journey use. When all are regenerating, the exhaust gets
VERY, VERY, VERY hot because of the burning-off.

Then there's the dual-mass flywheel issues, and the costs arising from
mis-fuelling (possibly by a previous owner).

I'd avoid a modern diesel, tbh, for your sort of mileage. The extra fuel
costs of a fairly economical petrol will be relatively low compared to
the potential costs.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:50:09 +0100, Another Dave wrote:

I'm about to buy a new or second-hand diesel medium-size hatch/saloon.

Some time ago (I swear it was here) somebody complained that it cost
£1000 to refill an additive tank on a French diesel car (I can't
remember which) and I'm anxious to avoid cars which cost this kind of
money to service. I do 20,000 miles a year.

Do all modern diesels have these additive tanks?

Only those with early versions of DPF. (Diesel Particulate Filter.) The
fluid is used to regenerate the DPF

Later cars use some extra fuel to regenerate the filter, but this can
only happen when the engine is warmed up, and is working fairly hard, so
is unsuitable for vehicles operated mostly at low speeds in cities. If
the filter doesn't regenerate the ECU will eventually shut the engine
down, requiring recovery and filter replacement. This is also expensive.

Any suggestions about which to avoid?

All of them. They're diesel ;-)

Chris

--
Remove prejudice to reply.

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:01:09 +0000, Adrian boggled us with:

Another Dave gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

Some time ago (I swear it was here) somebody complained that it cost
£1000 to refill an additive tank on a French diesel car (I can't
remember which)

If they did, then they were wrong. Unless they were also including the
cost of a replacement for a clogged particulate filter.

I do 20,000 miles a year.

What sort of mileage?

Do all modern diesels have these additive tanks?

No, relatively few do, but the really expensive bit is on virtually all.

There's three basic methods of reducing particulate emission. All work
on basically the same theory - filter and store the particulates then
burn them off when the opportunity arises.

Two use additives - AdBlu (common in trucks, might be in some Mercedes
cars), Eolys (Peugeot/Citroen, but only for a short while), whilst the
third just uses extra diesel fuel.

All wait until the exhaust gets properly hot-hot-hot, so tend to clog
the filters in short-journey use. When all are regenerating, the exhaust
gets VERY, VERY, VERY hot because of the burning-off.

Then there's the dual-mass flywheel issues, and the costs arising from
mis-fuelling (possibly by a previous owner).

I'd avoid a modern diesel, tbh, for your sort of mileage. The extra fuel
costs of a fairly economical petrol will be relatively low compared to
the potential costs.

Indeed. My dad's Merc gets a remarkable 44mpg according to the computer
on it. Not bad for a 2 litre petrol lump.

It'll get a lot more now he's given up driving..



--
Mike P

On 25/08/2010 17:01, Adrian wrote:
Another gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

Some time ago (I swear it was here) somebody complained that it cost
£1000 to refill an additive tank on a French diesel car (I can't
remember which)

If they did, then they were wrong. Unless they were also including the
cost of a replacement for a clogged particulate filter.


I've tracked down the thread (kicked off by Mr Cheerful ;-) )

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....abd761db56c7a5

I do 20,000 miles a year.

What sort of mileage?

Do all modern diesels have these additive tanks?

No, relatively few do, but the really expensive bit is on virtually all.

There's three basic methods of reducing particulate emission. All work on
basically the same theory - filter and store the particulates then burn
them off when the opportunity arises.

Two use additives - AdBlu (common in trucks, might be in some Mercedes
cars), Eolys (Peugeot/Citroen, but only for a short while), whilst the
third just uses extra diesel fuel.

All wait until the exhaust gets properly hot-hot-hot, so tend to clog the
filters in short-journey use. When all are regenerating, the exhaust gets
VERY, VERY, VERY hot because of the burning-off.

Then there's the dual-mass flywheel issues, and the costs arising from
mis-fuelling (possibly by a previous owner).

I'd avoid a modern diesel, tbh, for your sort of mileage. The extra fuel
costs of a fairly economical petrol will be relatively low compared to
the potential costs.

It was, as you say, Eolys on a Citroen. £980 was the figure quoted.

I'll bear in mind your suggestion that I go for petrol. I've had 65,000
trouble-free miles out of my current diesel so I'm still undecided. I do
mainly long open road journeys.

Another Dave

Another Dave gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:


It was, as you say, Eolys on a Citroen. £980 was the figure quoted.

Read the whole thread - it was a main dealer price... including a new
filter and ECU reset etc. Just not needed.

I'll bear in mind your suggestion that I go for petrol. I've had 65,000
trouble-free miles out of my current diesel so I'm still undecided. I do
mainly long open road journeys.

So it should regenerate reasonably well.

What age is your current diesel, and what?

On 25/08/2010 17:42, Adrian wrote:

What age is your current diesel, and what?

54 reg Fiat Stilo 1.9 JTD. It's now done 98,000 miles. I have to say the
engine is by far and away the best thing about the car - powerful,
economical, smooth and very reliable. I've changed the oil and cambelt
as recommended and that's it.

Another Dave

"Adrian" wrote
Another Dave gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

I do 20,000 miles a year.

Do all modern diesels have these additive tanks?

No, relatively few do, but the really expensive bit is on virtually all.

Some Kia/Hyundai still don't have particulate capture. They are also chain
driven cam.

Then there's the dual-mass flywheel issues,

Not all cars have a DMF (but models are difficult to identify). A broken DMF
can sometimes be replaced by a solid.

and the costs arising from
mis-fuelling (possibly by a previous owner).

If misfuelling causes bits of hardened surfaces to break away I would have
thought if damage is done it would be immediately noticeable, rather than
leave hidden surprises.

I'd avoid a modern diesel, tbh, for your sort of mileage.

For 20K?

The extra fuel
costs of a fairly economical petrol will be relatively low compared to
the potential costs.

A D might gain a bit on VED and insurance. And then there's the
performance... a modern lardy box with atmospheric petrol engine and CO2 tax
adjusted final drive doesn't make a happy combination. I only do 10K but
that was one of my considerations.

Then there's the dual-mass flywheel issues, and the costs arising from
mis-fuelling (possibly by a previous owner).


In what way are you linking misfuelling to causing DMF problems, or have
I misread you?

Rob Graham

On 26/08/2010 07:42, Rob Graham wrote:


Then there's the dual-mass flywheel issues, and the costs arising from
mis-fuelling (possibly by a previous owner).


In what way are you linking misfuelling to causing DMF problems, or have
I misread you?

Rob Graham
I think he's listing 2 seperate issues.