On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:28:52 -0000, johannes
wrote:



Duncan Wood wrote:

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:17:49 -0000, johannes
wrote:



Duncan Wood wrote:

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:31:48 -0000, johannes
wrote:



Duncan Wood wrote:

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:29:22 -0000, GB
wrote:

David Taylor wrote:
On 2010-02-04, GB wrote:
Say your accelerator jammed. Well, how long would it take you
to
figure this out and depress the clutch/put it into neutral?
Especially an experienced driver like a highway patrolman. 5
seconds? Well, surely not long enough to make a 911 call.





http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7012913.ece

What's actually going on here? Suicide, and he wanted to take
his
family with him?

Automatic, keyless ignition.

An auto box without a neutral position on the selector?




& ~I've yet to see a keyless ignition you can't turn off, or a
Toyota
that
wouldn't stop if you stood on the footbrake in 5th. Thereagain
there
are
some people who are too daft to try turning off the ignition or
puttung
the car into neutral.

The Lexsus would not allow you to put gear in neutral when the
throttle
is open. Apparently to protect the engine...

Stand on the brake pedal, turn the engine off then. If you push the
brake
pedal it will still stop. Try it.

I don't own a Lexus, but some have replied that the engine would
override
the brakes since you're not supposed to brake at full throttle.

Some people make all sorts of odd claims.

But cars are becoming more like robots these days. I think Volvo has a
system
which automatically brakes the car to keep distance from an object in
front
of the car. That would have solved the problem. (unless there was a sign
bug
in the computer code...

Such stories somewhat predate that though, see Audi or Saab & unintended
acceleration.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
johannes wrote:

I don't own a Lexus, but some have replied that the engine would override
the brakes since you're not supposed to brake at full throttle.

That would be a nonsense. Since it will be drive by wire the brake should
cancel out the throttle as the safer option of the two.

Yes, should do...

Usenet Nutter wrote:

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:22:56 GMT, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

GB wrote:
Say your accelerator jammed. Well, how long would it take you to
figure this out and depress the clutch/put it into neutral?
Especially an experienced driver like a highway patrolman. 5 seconds?
Well, surely not long enough to make a 911 call.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7012913.ece

What's actually going on here? Suicide, and he wanted to take his
family with him?

Darwinism in action.
ignition off is first thing (I believe this was a keyless vehicle that
required a 3 second press on the button to turn it off) If that cannot be
done then neutral (it doesn't matter if the engine blows) Braking normally
on a vehicle with a stuck throttle at speed will cook the brakes very
quickly and they will then appear to not work (as in this case) but if it
is in neutral the brakes will slow the car normally, if the throttle is wide
open and it is in gear (particularly an auto) then a panic stop might do it,
but a several hundred horsepower engine trying to move you forward with
torque converter help would take some massive braking effort to overcome.


The advice given on the News last night ( speaking about the Toyota
story) was to put car in neutral,brake normally ( no pumping of brake
pedal) and steer to a safe place THEN switch off the ignition ....not
to switch off before that as the power steering and braking ability
would be affected .

Anybody with a driving licence ought to be trained in steering the car
when the power steering is without power, so to speak, and when the
brakes have no assistance. Just as a simple emergency drill.

GB wrote:

thomas wrote:

The advice given on the News last night ( speaking about the Toyota
story) was to put car in neutral,brake normally ( no pumping of brake
pedal) and steer to a safe place THEN switch off the ignition
....not to switch off before that as the power steering and braking
ability would be affected .
exactly - modern petrol cars rev to the red line /maximum revs /
(hits the limiter) and no more - I doubt whether it would "blow up"

I can't help feeling that blowing up the engine in these circumstances would
not be top of my list of worries. Serve the damn thing right!

It would rev into the red zone, but there is probably a rev limiter somewhere.

Duncan Wood wrote:
On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:20:27 -0000, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

How many still use vacuum servos?


Nearly all.

Are there cars that don't? Things like BXs and Xantias use the
hydropneumagic system, but the likes of C5s use conventional systems
with vacuum servos and DOT brake fluid.

I've driven a couple of old Polos without servo assistance fitted, and a
couple of 1990s Diesel Peugeots with leaky hoses from the vacuum pump.
The brakes feel like they are made of wood.

--
Douglas

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:21:50 -0000, Douglas Payne
wrote:

Duncan Wood wrote:
On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:20:27 -0000, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

How many still use vacuum servos?

Nearly all.

Are there cars that don't?

Some Mercedes, & as you say Citroens. There's a load of American stuff
that used electric pumped hydraulic boosters, cadillacs spring to mind.

Things like BXs and Xantias use the hydropneumagic system, but the likes
of C5s use conventional systems with vacuum servos and DOT brake fluid.

I've driven a couple of old Polos without servo assistance fitted, and a
couple of 1990s Diesel Peugeots with leaky hoses from the vacuum pump.
The brakes feel like they are made of wood.

"Douglas Payne" wrote in message
...
Duncan Wood wrote:
On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:20:27 -0000, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

How many still use vacuum servos?


Nearly all.

Are there cars that don't? Things like BXs and Xantias use the
hydropneumagic system, but the likes of C5s use conventional systems with
vacuum servos and DOT brake fluid.

I've driven a couple of old Polos without servo assistance fitted, and a
couple of 1990s Diesel Peugeots with leaky hoses from the vacuum pump. The
brakes feel like they are made of wood.

--
Douglas

my sierra has no servo, it has an electric pump instead.

In article ,
Mrcheerful wrote:
my sierra has no servo, it has an electric pump instead.

I thought this was the case with most modern cars fitted with ABS.

--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:21:30 -0000, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Mrcheerful wrote:
my sierra has no servo, it has an electric pump instead.

I thought this was the case with most modern cars fitted with ABS.


There's normally both, you can pull the fuse on the ABS & still have a
servo.

In article op.u7q7exf9haghkf@lucy,
Duncan Wood wrote:
On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:21:30 -0000, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Mrcheerful wrote:
my sierra has no servo, it has an electric pump instead.

I thought this was the case with most modern cars fitted with ABS.


There's normally both, you can pull the fuse on the ABS & still have a
servo.

I don't do much on my modern car myself - it's a BMW - but I can't see any
sign of a servo under the bonnet. On my SD1 it's huge, and mounted on the
master cylinder.

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.