Andy Champ wrote:

Pete M wrote:

Ah, my mistake. As is obvious from my sig, I don't take much notice of
these survey things.


If you know a better data source, please let us all know.

Here's an alternate - much more heavily subsetted, to avoid breaching
copyright of a subscription service - Which? Magazine
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ahhh, got that far and knew it was going to be a crock of ****e.

I know lots of people who own, or have owned Alfas - the only person I
know to have had issues is RDS.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

"SteveH" wrote in message
...

I know lots of people who own, or have owned Alfas - the only person I
know to have had issues is RDS.

Who could probably manage to find an unreliable corolla :-)

In article ,
SteveH wrote:
Here's an alternate - much more heavily subsetted, to avoid breaching
copyright of a subscription service - Which? Magazine
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ahhh, got that far and knew it was going to be a crock of ****e.

They simply collate the results of a survey of members. And also give the
numbers of the model quoted.

To get perfect results you'd need to survey every owner of any model -
but that's simply not possible. The Which numbers are adequate to give a
trend.

I've not seriously disagreed with them about any car I've had personal
experience of and I've been a member since shortly after it started.
Reading just the headlines you get in the press never gives the full story
- you have to read the whole survey for that.

But when all the various surveys on a model say there are issues with its
reliability you can be pretty certain it's so. Doesn't mean it's a car to
be avoided at all costs if you purchase with your eyes open.

--
*If you can read this, thank a teecher

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
SteveH wrote:
Here's an alternate - much more heavily subsetted, to avoid breaching
copyright of a subscription service - Which? Magazine
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ahhh, got that far and knew it was going to be a crock of ****e.

They simply collate the results of a survey of members. And also give the
numbers of the model quoted.

To get perfect results you'd need to survey every owner of any model -
but that's simply not possible. The Which numbers are adequate to give a
trend.

I've not seriously disagreed with them about any car I've had personal
experience of and I've been a member since shortly after it started.
Reading just the headlines you get in the press never gives the full story
- you have to read the whole survey for that.

But when all the various surveys on a model say there are issues with its
reliability you can be pretty certain it's so. Doesn't mean it's a car to
be avoided at all costs if you purchase with your eyes open.

One of the issues with Which? is that they blow everything out of all
proportion. The other is that their 'members' tend to pick up on and
complain about things most people wouldn't notice.

The thing that really gets to me is that a lot of so-called 'faults' are
owner / user error. 'My Alfa needed an engine rebuilt' = you didn't
check the oil, ever. Blown head gaskets on Fiats are another one (as
they are with the Rover K-series) - user error, because they ignored the
temp. gauge or carried on driving when the red light told them to stop.

We had an overheating Fiat - but never blew the gasket because Mrs H was
sensible enough to pay attention to the warning lights (it was caused by
a failed water pump because I'd been too pikey to replace it with the
cambelt).

Some surveys would even persuade people not to buy a VW with the VR6
engine - because the camchain can 'let go' - they don't go into the
minor detail that a camchain isn't sealed for life and does need some
maintenance (new tensioners) and eventual replacement.

A lot of issues, however, are caused by manufacturers trying to appeal
to fleet managers with extended service and cambelt intervals. Mostly,
people I know with Alfas were fully aware that a 72k change interval was
pushing things and had replaced early anyway, for example.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

In article ,
SteveH wrote:
One of the issues with Which? is that they blow everything out of all
proportion. The other is that their 'members' tend to pick up on and
complain about things most people wouldn't notice.

I think you're making the mistake of assuming all people are like yourself
and have the same values. To perhaps the majority a car is simply
transport and 'Alfa Romeo' values simply ain't important to them while
their faults and foibles would annoy greatly. And Which isn't a mag for
the enthusiast in *anything* - let alone motoring. It is a *consumer* mag.
Which must be doing something right given the number of enthusiast
motoring mags that have come and gone during its life.

The thing that really gets to me is that a lot of so-called 'faults' are
owner / user error. 'My Alfa needed an engine rebuilt' = you didn't
check the oil, ever. Blown head gaskets on Fiats are another one (as
they are with the Rover K-series) - user error, because they ignored the
temp. gauge or carried on driving when the red light told them to stop.

Why do you expect the average punter to have any mechanical knowledge?
Plenty makers produce cars which can run happily between services without
ever checking things under the bonnet - that Alfa can't just shows why
they are so unpopular in the UK. And why do Rover K series and Fiats lose
that coolant causing the problems you mention - other makes don't.

We had an overheating Fiat - but never blew the gasket because Mrs H was
sensible enough to pay attention to the warning lights (it was caused by
a failed water pump because I'd been too pikey to replace it with the
cambelt).

Just as well Mrs H has some savvy, then.;-)

Some surveys would even persuade people not to buy a VW with the VR6
engine - because the camchain can 'let go' - they don't go into the
minor detail that a camchain isn't sealed for life and does need some
maintenance (new tensioners) and eventual replacement.

People reading this sort of report want to know what the bid bills may be.
Nobody forces them to take notice.

A lot of issues, however, are caused by manufacturers trying to appeal
to fleet managers with extended service and cambelt intervals. Mostly,
people I know with Alfas were fully aware that a 72k change interval was
pushing things and had replaced early anyway, for example.

What you're willing to put up with on a 'specialist' vehicle is really not
the same as what the average punter may want or tolerate.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"SteveH" wrote in message
k...
George wrote:

"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 May 2008 14:26:28 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
wrote:
What car is it?

It's a 1997 Fiat Cinquecento 900cc. Main bit I'm looking for is a new
thermostat, as it's running a bit hot and I don't think the thermostat
is opening fully. Perhaps also a new fan switch.


Take the thermo out and dip it in water that the engine temp per normal
runs
at? to see if its functioning properly.

2 other things to consider - radiator and water pump.

What possed you to buy her a FIAT?

Perhaps because he doesn't believe in 30 year old stereotypes?
--
I had two, the Punto especially was spectacularly unreliable. Well built,
but unreliable. I would never have another FIAT.
I suspect the OP is heading for a headgasket failure if it's "running a bit
hot"..

Mike P

"SteveH" wrote in message
...
Andy Champ wrote:

Pete M wrote:

Ah, my mistake. As is obvious from my sig, I don't take much notice of
these survey things.


If you know a better data source, please let us all know.

Here's an alternate - much more heavily subsetted, to avoid breaching
copyright of a subscription service - Which? Magazine
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ahhh, got that far and knew it was going to be a crock of ****e.

I know lots of people who own, or have owned Alfas - the only person I
know to have had issues is RDS.
--

That's true. When I lived out in Greece in the early 90s, I knew quite a few
expats with old 'suds and 33s. Dead reliable. Bits fell off, but the main
mechanicals were sound.

Mke P

Mike P wrote:
"SteveH" wrote in message
k...
George wrote:

"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 May 2008 14:26:28 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
wrote:
What car is it?
It's a 1997 Fiat Cinquecento 900cc. Main bit I'm looking for is a new
thermostat, as it's running a bit hot and I don't think the thermostat
is opening fully. Perhaps also a new fan switch.

Take the thermo out and dip it in water that the engine temp per normal
runs
at? to see if its functioning properly.
2 other things to consider - radiator and water pump.

What possed you to buy her a FIAT?
Perhaps because he doesn't believe in 30 year old stereotypes?
--
I had two, the Punto especially was spectacularly unreliable. Well built,
but unreliable. I would never have another FIAT.
I suspect the OP is heading for a headgasket failure if it's "running a bit
hot"..

Mike P


The one qwe ad was reliable to he nth degree as far as the basics went,
and never ad any major problems.

It had ultimately a new cambelt and discs, and the clock LCD went
dip**** pretty quickly, but that's all. Apart from usual consumables.