"Caecilius" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 May 2008 14:26:28 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
wrote:
What car is it?

It's a 1997 Fiat Cinquecento 900cc. Main bit I'm looking for is a new
thermostat, as it's running a bit hot and I don't think the thermostat
is opening fully. Perhaps also a new fan switch.

£10 worth of bits from any motor factors. If by gasket you mean O ring, you
can get that at the same time.

In message , SteveH
writes
Perhaps because he doesn't believe in 30 year old stereotypes?
Why, aren't you real or are you an older stereotype?
--
Clint Sharp

SteveH wrote:
George wrote:

What possed you to buy her a FIAT?

Perhaps because he doesn't believe in 30 year old stereotypes?

2007 J Power survey, care of What Car? Magazine. My bits in [brackets]

"29 Fiat Punto [out of 31 in class]
Rating 74.9%
Overall ranking 106th [out of 113]

....

The Punto scored poorly across the board, but its real Achilles heel was
its quality and reliability: every part, from the switchgear to the
seats and stereo, caused an above average number of complaints, and the
suspension and engine were particularly weak points."

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:

SteveH wrote:
George wrote:

What possed you to buy her a FIAT?

Perhaps because he doesn't believe in 30 year old stereotypes?

2007 J Power survey, care of What Car? Magazine. My bits in [brackets]

"29 Fiat Punto [out of 31 in class]
Rating 74.9%
Overall ranking 106th [out of 113]

...

The Punto scored poorly across the board, but its real Achilles heel was
its quality and reliability: every part, from the switchgear to the
seats and stereo, caused an above average number of complaints, and the
suspension and engine were particularly weak points."

Ahh, yes, that's such an accurate survey.

That's the one that placed the Skoda Superb in the top 10 with the
mechanically identical B5.5 Passat way down in 50th-ish place.

For that reason alone, I take absolutely no notice of it.

--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:

SteveH wrote:
George wrote:

What possed you to buy her a FIAT?
Perhaps because he doesn't believe in 30 year old stereotypes?
2007 J Power survey, care of What Car? Magazine. My bits in [brackets]

"29 Fiat Punto [out of 31 in class]
Rating 74.9%
Overall ranking 106th [out of 113]

...

The Punto scored poorly across the board, but its real Achilles heel was
its quality and reliability: every part, from the switchgear to the
seats and stereo, caused an above average number of complaints, and the
suspension and engine were particularly weak points."

Ahh, yes, that's such an accurate survey.

That's the one that placed the Skoda Superb in the top 10 with the
mechanically identical B5.5 Passat way down in 50th-ish place.

For that reason alone, I take absolutely no notice of it.

Maybe, just maybe, the Skoda is easier to build properly than the
Passat? Later design than the Passat it's based on, and the Czechs
appear to work a bit harder than the Wolfsburg crew.

From what I've been told, the VW's that are built away from Wolfsburg
tend to be better made than the German ones. The Mexican built Beetles
tend to have less faults per car than the German jobs.

That and Skoda drivers expecting more problems than VW ones, but getting
better made, simpler cars that don't tend to break as often would quite
possibly account for the JD Power results.

I'm always impressed when I drive a late model Skoda, but very rarely
impressed with a new VW.

--
Pete M - OMF#9
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Range Rover 4.6 HSE
"Professional Petrolhead"

Pete M wrote:

Ahh, yes, that's such an accurate survey.

That's the one that placed the Skoda Superb in the top 10 with the
mechanically identical B5.5 Passat way down in 50th-ish place.

For that reason alone, I take absolutely no notice of it.

Maybe, just maybe, the Skoda is easier to build properly than the
Passat? Later design than the Passat it's based on, and the Czechs
appear to work a bit harder than the Wolfsburg crew.

Erm, well, the outgoing Superb and the old B5.5 are identical, other
than the Superb having an extra few inches in the floorpan.

From what I've been told, the VW's that are built away from Wolfsburg
tend to be better made than the German ones. The Mexican built Beetles
tend to have less faults per car than the German jobs.

That and Skoda drivers expecting more problems than VW ones, but getting
better made, simpler cars that don't tend to break as often would quite
possibly account for the JD Power results.

I was comparing near-idential models.

Also, many of the comments made about the Passat's shortfalls and the
Superb's strengths were to do with parts which would be made in a common
facility.

I'm always impressed when I drive a late model Skoda, but very rarely
impressed with a new VW.

Perception, innit.

The JD Power survey is a crock of ****e.

(There was a lease survey done a few years back where the Bravo family
got pretty damned good results, but they got slated in the JD Power
survey - mostly because the lease survey was done on actual data and not
perceived issues)
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:
Pete M wrote:

Ahh, yes, that's such an accurate survey.

That's the one that placed the Skoda Superb in the top 10 with the
mechanically identical B5.5 Passat way down in 50th-ish place.

For that reason alone, I take absolutely no notice of it.

Maybe, just maybe, the Skoda is easier to build properly than the
Passat? Later design than the Passat it's based on, and the Czechs
appear to work a bit harder than the Wolfsburg crew.

Erm, well, the outgoing Superb and the old B5.5 are identical, other
than the Superb having an extra few inches in the floorpan.

But the Superb was a slightly later design wasn't it? Based on the B5.5,
yes, but done slightly later.

From what I've been told, the VW's that are built away from Wolfsburg
tend to be better made than the German ones. The Mexican built Beetles
tend to have less faults per car than the German jobs.

That and Skoda drivers expecting more problems than VW ones, but getting
better made, simpler cars that don't tend to break as often would quite
possibly account for the JD Power results.

I was comparing near-idential models.

Also, many of the comments made about the Passat's shortfalls and the
Superb's strengths were to do with parts which would be made in a common
facility.

A lot of the problems I've found with late model VWs tends to be to do
with shoddy assembly. Wiring looms chafing, washer pipes dislodging that
kind of malarky. Coil pack failure seems to be spread across the whole
VAG range though (apart from Lamborghini and Bentley)

I'm always impressed when I drive a late model Skoda, but very rarely
impressed with a new VW.

Perception, innit.

Partly, yes. But I find the Skodas to have better judged damping and
ride than the VW equivalents. VWs tend to be biased towards motorway and
A-roads, whereas the Skodas tend to be better suited for the worn out
crater lined jokes the UK calls roads. Maybe it's because Czech roads
are about the same as ours, whereas German ones tend to be in much
better condition.

The JD Power survey is a crock of ****e.

(There was a lease survey done a few years back where the Bravo family
got pretty damned good results, but they got slated in the JD Power
survey - mostly because the lease survey was done on actual data and not
perceived issues)

So the Bravo did badly because it actually broke, rather than feeling
like it was about to break?


--
Pete M - OMF#9
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Range Rover 4.6 HSE
"Professional Petrolhead"

Pete M wrote:

The JD Power survey is a crock of ****e.

(There was a lease survey done a few years back where the Bravo family
got pretty damned good results, but they got slated in the JD Power
survey - mostly because the lease survey was done on actual data and not
perceived issues)

So the Bravo did badly because it actually broke, rather than feeling
like it was about to break?

No, the Bravo family did well in a lease survey because it concentrated
on stuff that actually did break. JD power results are based on people
thinking it might break.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:
Pete M wrote:

The JD Power survey is a crock of ****e.

(There was a lease survey done a few years back where the Bravo family
got pretty damned good results, but they got slated in the JD Power
survey - mostly because the lease survey was done on actual data and not
perceived issues)
So the Bravo did badly because it actually broke, rather than feeling
like it was about to break?

No, the Bravo family did well in a lease survey because it concentrated
on stuff that actually did break. JD power results are based on people
thinking it might break.

Ah, my mistake. As is obvious from my sig, I don't take much notice of
these survey things.

--
Pete M - OMF#9
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Range Rover 4.6 HSE
"Professional Petrolhead"

Pete M wrote:

Ah, my mistake. As is obvious from my sig, I don't take much notice of
these survey things.


If you know a better data source, please let us all know.

Here's an alternate - much more heavily subsetted, to avoid breaching
copyright of a subscription service - Which? Magazine say of the Grande
Punto (to choose a Fiat at random):

Brand Reliability: Poor
Model Reliability: Breakdowns: Acceptable
Faults: Very Poor
Niggles: Acceptable.

Andy