Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often
different to the eastern european wagons , quite common for them
to run with large belly tanks under thier trailers

So why can't UK hauliers...?

Because our regulations are different to other EU countries

So there's a maximum tank size applicable to UK-registered vehicles,
but which doesn't apply to foreign-registered vehicles being used in
the UK?

Why has this never been mentioned before?

, not all uk oads have european destnations

Nor, it would seem, do the ones that Johnny Foreigner is apparently
doing on this cheap diesel that they've brought with 'em. Surely UK
hauliers are just as free to bid for runs heading out of the UK as
foreign hauliers are?

Yes but realistically you wont get a british lorry driver with a
british morgage working for 10 pence a mile all in that woulsnt even
keep him in groceries

--

wrote:

On 7 May, 16:16, "steve robinson"
wrote:
wrote:
On 7 May, 14:47, "steve robinson"
wrote:
Conor wrote:
In article , Adrian
says...
"steve robinson" gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying:

They are competing against foreign owned trucks who fill
up outside the UK where desiel is cheaper

So how come UK truckers can't take their trucks on a
boozecruise, if it makes so much difference?

8MPG and an overnight ferry or a 320 mile trip to Dover.

Funny how UK truck drivers vary between hideously underpaid
and raking it in, depending on the point trying to be
made...

Depends on your definition of a good wage. Currently I'm on
£9.50/hr.

I can get a pole that will do it for £2.00 *thats were the
problem lies and he will sleep in his cab and not want any
overnight allowance

Many eastern eruopean drivers will happliy work for 10p per mile
some will take as little as 5 p per mile ,

I think this is it. *As in so many other industries people from
eastern europe are willing to work harder for less money than UK
nationals. *In the end this will make the UK more efficent and
able to compete on a global level. *It will make life harder for
some people in the short term, but in the long term it will mean
that the uk is a player in the global ecconomy rather that some
protectionist backwater trying and failing to get rich washing
each others clothes.

Utter rubbish , its nothing about working harder , they can afford
to take less because thier cost of living is less ,

In this case you may be right, and if it is the case that they work
harder it is because the enforcement of driving hours is more lax.
The sleeping in the cab thing you mentioned could be interpreted as
working harder. I have heard the argument from agricultural and horse
training enplyers that the eastern europeans tend to worrk harder.

and because of the
stupidity of the EU in supporting thier economies through leveys on
the uk , germany france etc its skewing the market place , Take
spain as an example thier economy has recieved billions in
*subsidies since the jioned the eu , so has southern ireland , they
could both survive without these subsidies however it would mean
large tax rizes and better fiscal and economic management something
that is politically a non starter , many large companies are now
relocating because of the tax advantages in these countries ,
because of the sudsidies we are paying .fiscal stupidity

Very few of the eu countries could stand on thier own two feet
without these cash injections ,

Poland has not been in the uk for long, has the tax burden dropped
there significantly? I have to suspect that it is because they live
with much lower levels of public services, and the extra cash from the
EU goies to helping there ecconomy catch up, so wages will not be
lower than here for ever.

Other industries manage to compete with Polish wages, why not haulage?

It has been a while since you mentioned fuel duty. Do you belive it
is that that is causing the problem, or these other questions?

other industries are not competing dunlop shut up shop and moved to
poland , large sections of manufacturing is going to bulgaria (no
corperation tax) or china



--

wrote:

On 7 May, 16:49, "steve robinson"
wrote:
Adrian wrote:
"steve robinson" gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Utter rubbish , its nothing about working harder , they can
afford to take less because thier cost of living is less

How about those who have moved and are living here?

Did you not see the chavs interviewed on TV outside a job centre
refusing to work for £7/hr picking veg, because they felt it was
too much like hard work?

It is hard work and £7.00 an hour is not a very good wage , i was
earning that 20 years ago , they would probably be better off on
benifits

and because of the stupidity of the EU in supporting thier
economies through leveys on the uk , germany france etc its
skewing the market place , Take spain as an example thier
economy has recieved billions in *subsidies since the jioned
the eu , so has southern ireland

Ireland joined (what became) the EU at the same time as the UK, in
1972. *Spain in 1977.

Are you against all subsidies for regions experiencing economic
difficulties? no but thiers a big difference between a hand up
and a

hand out , any help should be subject to econmoic reform no reform
no handout



Very few of the eu countries could stand on thier own two feet
without these cash injections ,

So socio-political policy should support the rich-poor divide,
rather than aim for a flattening of socia-economic differences?
Is that purely at national level, or should it be applied to
personal taxation within a country, too?

Most of the poorer countries are in that position because of thier
own economic mismanagement and fiscal control ,

You are joking? You do not think it is anything to do with being
flattened in WW2, then occupied by russia for 45 years while the west
waged an ecconomic war against the soviet block? What do you suggest
poland do differently? Surely not raise taxes, increase regulation of
industry and prevent labour mobility which seems to be the issues you
are complaining about.

you cant force a country
into the twentyfirst centuary they need to grow at thier own pace ,
you only have to look at africa , the more we help and interfere
the more they dispise us and yet the more they rely on us

A desperate people that are given food will still be desperate but
they are unlikely to do anything about the situation that caused it

A desperate people who are not given food will be without hope they
will do something about it

You have to remember that by far the largest chunck of the EU budget
goes on supporting farmers to produce food, in particular inefficent
"farmers" in france. I do not think you can can worry too much about
industrial development support for easten europe while so much money
is spend on the CAP.

If you were to reduce development support in poland etc. you would
only make the problem here worse, as more people would come here
looking for work. It is in everyones intrest to get easten europe up
to a comparable level of wealth.

Or better still protect our own citezens and stop all further
immigration from the former soviet block countries like several other
eu countries did , they forsaw the problems

--

Adrian wrote:
Chris Bartram gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were Saying:

The depressing Thing is that a lot of non-essentials (think consumer
electronics) are cheaper than ever, but all the stuff you need (food,
electricity, gas, diesel, petrol for example) is skyrocketing in
cost.

Funny how it all balances out to 2% inflation, isn't it?

It's enough to get a good conspiracy theory going...

We have been importing deflation from China since the early nineties, with
Gordon only too willing to take all of the credit by telling us it was all
down to his 'Mr Prudent' no boom and bust style of management, seems to me
that he got out just the right time, just when it all started to fall apart
at the seams, and now the fall guy Darling is having to take most of the
flak.
Did anyone hear what Paddy Ashdown had to say on Question Time this week?..
In essence he told the audience that as far as cheap energy and travel goes,
the party is now over for good.

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Utter rubbish , its nothing about working harder , they can afford to
take less because thier cost of living is less

How about those who have moved and are living here?

Did you not see the chavs interviewed on TV outside a job centre
refusing to work for £7/hr picking veg, because they felt it was too
much like hard work?

It is hard work and £7.00 an hour is not a very good wage , i was
earning that 20 years ago , they would probably be better off on
benifits

I think you've just proved my point.

But then you follow up...
they would probably be better off on benifits
with
A desperate people who are not given food will be without hope they
will do something about it

....yet you don't see the contradiction? Or are you suggesting benefits
should be removed, so that the chavs who can't be arsed to do hard work
for £7/hr have no choice?

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

They can still use them in europe , as long as the tank is 'empty'
when they hit the uk and the tank was part of the trailers original
construction then they can still bring the trailers fitted with them
into the uk , it still means they can run on cheap desiel here in the
uk

How, if the tank must be EMPTY when they arrive in the UK?

Most tractor units have one sometimes two or three tanks running at
around 1500ltr capacity , the belly tanks are on the trailer units ,

What many drivers do is uncouple the fuel line , its very rare that the
tank will actually ever be dipped if its not connected , even if it is
its unlikely that a procecution will take place unless it is full takes
them only a few minutes to reconnect the tank

Yet UK drivers can't do that?

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

because thiers a limit too the amount of fuel a british registered
lorry can carry , i think the limit is 1500 ltrs

Still waiting for any verifiable reference to this claim...

google is your freind , look under construction and use of motorvehicles

Construction & Use regs aren't online.

However, any changes to them over the last few decades have been based on
EU regs - especially for wagons.

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Yes but realistically you wont get a british lorry driver with a british
morgage working for 10 pence a mile all in that woulsnt even keep him in
groceries

So it's nothing whatsoever to do with the price of fuel - that's all a
red herring as a cover-up for your xenophobia?

If foreign drivers can't work here, why should UK drivers be permitted to
work abroad? Vince should just deposit his trailer at Dover, and be happy
with UK only runs.

Ivan wrote:
Adrian wrote:
Chris Bartram gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were Saying:

The depressing Thing is that a lot of non-essentials (think consumer
electronics) are cheaper than ever, but all the stuff you need
(food, electricity, gas, diesel, petrol for example) is
skyrocketing in cost.

Funny how it all balances out to 2% inflation, isn't it?

It's enough to get a good conspiracy theory going...

We have been importing deflation from China since the early nineties,
with Gordon only too willing to take all of the credit by telling us
it was all down to his 'Mr Prudent' no boom and bust style of
management, seems to me that he got out just the right time, just
when it all started to fall apart at the seams, and now the fall guy
Darling is having to take most of the flak.
Did anyone hear what Paddy Ashdown had to say on Question Time this
week?.. In essence he told the audience that as far as cheap energy
and travel goes, the party is now over for good.

It doesn't get any better.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7387203.stm

Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Utter rubbish , its nothing about working harder , they can
afford to take less because thier cost of living is less

How about those who have moved and are living here?

Did you not see the chavs interviewed on TV outside a job centre
refusing to work for £7/hr picking veg, because they felt it was
too much like hard work?

It is hard work and £7.00 an hour is not a very good wage , i was
earning that 20 years ago , they would probably be better off on
benifits

I think you've just proved my point.

What point that they expect a reasonable wage that they can live on ,
those so called chavs are living in the uk with the costs that are
associated with being a uk resident , many of the polish men working
here have thier families back in poland are prepared to accept
standards of accomadation that wouldnt have been tolerated in the uk
100 years ago , often you will find 10 or 12 living in one house
sharing the costs makes it feasable to live here

But then you follow up...
they would probably be better off on benifits
correct they probably will however these handouts are paid for by uk
taxation of which they have contributed

with
A desperate people who are not given food will be without hope they
will do something about it

...yet you don't see the contradiction? Or are you suggesting
benefits should be removed, so that the chavs who can't be arsed to
do hard work for £7/hr have no choice?

Totally different senerio one refers to individuals who have in the
most part contributed to the uk pot , the other is a nation state that
consistantly expects the rest of the world to bail out a failed regime

I am not saying that some of the chavs need a good kick up the arse to
motivate them , by the same context they have in one way or another
contributed to the uk tax system and as such that sytem makes social
payment to those that are not working , that system is for the uk
citezens not the whole bloody world

--