"steve robinson" wrote in message
...

Big difference in net cost , the cost by the ports is always high
stupid toursits fill up thinking they have saved money --

Hmm. Not IME in France. Maybe _right_ next to the port, but the supermarkets
near them seem to be as cheap as anything else.

clive

wrote:

On 7 May, 14:25, "steve robinson"
wrote:
wrote:
As I say, I do not know anything about the industry, but it seems
to me that if it is ecconomical for the foreign owned trucks to
come here with full tanks to deliver between 2 sites within the
UK, why is it not ecconomical for UK trucks to go to the
continent, fill up and then return to do the same job?

Because they are still paying uk rates to the drivers who are also
covered by the maximium driving hours legislation , and you add
another ferry journey into the equation , the eu drivers rarely go
over to the continient empty .

I say again, if you cannot compete on wages then do something about
it. Do not expect everyone else to support an unecconomic industry.
The europe wide competion for labour has made everyone have to think
about their competativness.

The industry is not uneconomc if a level playing field exists , however
lets play by your rules , the uk haulage system crashes , government
loses billions in taxes , unemployement rizes costing the government
billions in benifits are you prepared to take a tax hike of 10 % and a
wage cut of 50% will you ****


And if the EU drivers can find loads to take over the channel, then
why can uk drivers not?

Basic economics , of 100 pound plus a day wage cost differential , very
low or no business tax in many eastern european countries
No employment taxes (nat insurance currently 12% ) very little
employment law

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different to
the eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with
large belly tanks under thier trailers

That is a very good issue. I thought regulations concerning HGV's had
been standardised accross europe, for things like this and also
driving hours (and speed limits, hence the 56 mph limit). If this
standardisation has not taken place, then should that not be the
subject of the protests?

Not across all of europe , many countries do not enforce the
regulations

I have a friend that used to have wagons doing continental runs it
was standard proceedure for them to come back to the uk full of
fuel then the nigh****chman used to empty the wagons tanks
overnight into his uk fleet , leaving his trucks just enough to get
to calais again to fill up , he reckoned it saved him over £250000
a year

There, a change to business practice that alows uk companies to
compete. If people are willing to be flexable I cannot see why the UK
cannot compete perferctly well.

Not all haulers can get international trips , he was just fortunate ,
if he didnt do that is uk fleet would be running at a substantial loss .

And you would be happy if your employer decided to be flexible and cut
your wages by 50% and send you off to latvia or the likes and enforced
a 16 hour day on you , take it or eave it



--

wrote:

On 7 May, 14:42, "steve robinson"
wrote:
wrote:
So it seems to me that in the south east people have to compete
with people who buy cheap deseil on the continent, and people in
Hull do not. *So where is the problem? If it is cheaper to buy
fuel abroad buy fuel abroad and compete, if it is cheaper to buy
fuel here then buy fuel here and compete. *If you need to shedule
jobs between hull and dover to make use of the traveling time, be
more flexable and do that. *I know the "fuel torist" solution is
far from ideal, especially for the environment and the exchequer,
but for the indavidual company involved it has to be better than
closure.

Customers dictate collection and delivery points and times not the
haulage companies , if the company we use couldnt deliver when i
want then we call someone else who will

And how is that diferent for the poles that are undercutting the UK
companies?

because they are not subject to employment laws if the company is not
uk domicied nor uk tax or national insurance . Polish tax autorites
have no access to uk tax records or vice versa so they can play the
system

--

wrote:

On 7 May, 14:47, "steve robinson"
wrote:
Conor wrote:
In article , Adrian
says...
"steve robinson" gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying:

They are competing against foreign owned trucks who fill up
outside the UK where desiel is cheaper

So how come UK truckers can't take their trucks on a
boozecruise, if it makes so much difference?

8MPG and an overnight ferry or a 320 mile trip to Dover.

Funny how UK truck drivers vary between hideously underpaid and
raking it in, depending on the point trying to be made...

Depends on your definition of a good wage. Currently I'm on
£9.50/hr.

I can get a pole that will do it for £2.00 *thats were the problem
lies and he will sleep in his cab and not want any overnight
allowance

Many eastern eruopean drivers will happliy work for 10p per mile
some will take as little as 5 p per mile ,

I think this is it. As in so many other industries people from
eastern europe are willing to work harder for less money than UK
nationals. In the end this will make the UK more efficent and able to
compete on a global level. It will make life harder for some people
in the short term, but in the long term it will mean that the uk is a
player in the global ecconomy rather that some protectionist backwater
trying and failing to get rich washing each others clothes.

Utter rubbish , its nothing about working harder , they can afford to
take less because thier cost of living is less , and because of the
stupidity of the EU in supporting thier economies through leveys on the
uk , germany france etc its skewing the market place , Take spain as an
example thier economy has recieved billions in subsidies since the
jioned the eu , so has southern ireland , they could both survive
without these subsidies however it would mean large tax rizes and
better fiscal and economic management something that is politically a
non starter , many large companies are now relocating because of the
tax advantages in these countries , because of the sudsidies we are
paying .fiscal stupidity

Very few of the eu countries could stand on thier own two feet without
these cash injections ,

--

Adrian wrote:

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

Yeah, but most people do not go to france for their booze and
baccy. If if is more profitable to buy your fuel in france and do
your driving in the UK, then every company should be doing it, so
they would sell no fuel to HGV drivers.

But you've not done the maths. 8MPG, 400-500l tanks.

900 mile range.

Tell me how its
viable for any company save those based or having loads in the SE?

So how is it viable for Johnny Foreigner? C'mon, Conor, surely the
same basic maths apply...?

They run 1500 or 2000 ltr tanks filled up in eastern european countries
where thier fuel costs are far lower any cross border deliveries become
far cheaper , most things in the uk are imported .

They can have ranges well over 3000 miles , even if they need to buy
desiel on the return leg in the european mainland they only need to
buy enough to travel to thier home country

--

On 7 May, 16:04, "steve robinson"
wrote:
wrote:
On 7 May, 14:25, "steve robinson"
wrote:
wrote:
As I say, I do not know anything about the industry, but it seems
to me that if it is ecconomical for the foreign owned trucks to
come here with full tanks to deliver between 2 sites within the
UK, why is it not ecconomical for UK trucks to go to the
continent, fill up and then return to do the same job?

Because they are still paying uk rates to the drivers who are also
covered by the maximium driving hours legislation , and you add
another ferry journey into the equation , the eu drivers rarely go
over to the continient empty .

I say again, if you cannot compete on wages then do something about
it. *Do not expect everyone else to support an unecconomic industry.
The europe wide competion for labour has made everyone have to think
about their competativness.

The industry is not uneconomc if a level playing field exists , however
lets play by your rules , the uk haulage system crashes , government
loses billions in taxes , unemployement rizes costing the government
billions in benifits are you prepared to take a tax hike of 10 % and a
wage cut of 50% will you ****

That is not my rules, that is the rules of the jungle. If you are
unecconomic you will fold. If there are problems such as larger fuel
tanks or discepancies in hours driven then that should be addressed,
not fuel tax. If people are not willing to work for the wages others
are then that is a quite different problem.

And if the EU drivers can find loads to take over the channel, then
why can uk drivers not?

Basic economics , of 100 pound plus a day wage cost differential , very
low or no business tax in many eastern european countries
No employment taxes (nat insurance currently 12% ) very little
employment law

If it is these taxes that are making the difference why are people
concentrating on fuel duty?

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different to
the eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with
large belly tanks under thier trailers

That is a very good issue. *I thought regulations concerning HGV's had
been standardised accross europe, for things like this and also
driving hours (and speed limits, hence the 56 mph limit). *If this
standardisation has not taken place, then should that not be the
subject of the protests?

Not across all of europe , many countries do not enforce the
regulations

Again, this should be where the protests or change should be
concentrated, not fuel duty because fuel duty IS a level playing
field.

I have a friend that used to have wagons doing continental runs it
was standard proceedure for them to come back to the uk full of
fuel then the nigh****chman used to empty the wagons tanks
overnight into his uk fleet , leaving his trucks just enough to get
to calais again to fill up , he reckoned it saved him over £250000
a year

There, a change to business practice that alows uk companies to
compete. *If people are willing to be flexable I cannot see why the UK
cannot compete perferctly well.

Not all haulers can get international trips , he was just fortunate ,
if he didnt do that is uk fleet would be running at a substantial loss .

And you would be happy if your employer decided to be flexible and cut
your wages by 50% and send you off to latvia or the likes and enforced
a 16 hour day on you , take it or eave it

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do
whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That is
called a flexable labour market.

because they are not subject to employment laws if the company is not
uk domicied nor uk tax or national insurance . Polish tax autorites
have no access to uk tax records or vice versa so they can play the
system

This does make me wonder, why are any contracting firms still paying
UK tax if it is so easy to provide a service in this country yet pay
lower polish taxes? I am thinking cleaning firms because of the NMW,
but it would also apply to computer programing and other high value
jobs if you save NI contributions etc.

Adrian wrote:

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

Because for some wierd reason, the customer dictates how much
they'll pay to a point.

Only as far as somebody's willing to supply for that price. If nobody
was, the price would either go up or the goods wouldn't get shifted.

You're also competing with foreigners running on cheaper diesel.

But you just told us cheap diesel didn't apply to people doing runs
like yours in your area. Make your mind up.

Not connor but the large foriegn artics with 2000 ltr tanks can still
pick up return loads and transport them around the uk on thier way to
the local ports

--

Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

the eu drivers rarely go over to the continient empty .

So why can't UK hauliers?

KotR is always going on about his long distance runs - tank up on the
continent on the way back, then swap trucks for tomorrow with the guy
who's doing a Scotland run, whilst he heads off on the ferry empty.
Easy.
The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different
to the eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with
large belly tanks under thier trailers

So why can't UK hauliers...?

Because our regulations are different to other EU countries , not all
uk oads have european destnations

--

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

You're also competing with foreigners running on cheaper diesel.

But you just told us cheap diesel didn't apply to people doing runs
like yours in your area. Make your mind up.

Not connor but the large foriegn artics with 2000 ltr tanks can still
pick up return loads and transport them around the uk on thier way to
the local ports

So why can't Large British Artics use 2,000 litre tanks, too?

Clive George wrote:

"steve robinson" wrote in message
...

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different to
the eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with
large belly tanks under thier trailers

ISTR they're not allowed any more. Well, not on our side of the
border anyway, which means they can't get any benefit from them.

clive

They can still use them in europe , as long as the tank is 'empty' when
they hit the uk and the tank was part of the trailers original
construction then they can still bring the trailers fitted with them
into the uk , it still means they can run on cheap desiel here in the uk

--