In article , steve
robinson says...
the only difference bieng the company
now only employs polish drivers who work through an employment agency
based in poland , you can bet your last pound they are not being paid
the minimum wage as they are not subject to uk wage laws

I was just going to say about this scam. A few agencies are using it
now.

Company makes booking with local office. Local office checks with
"Warsaw branch" (one room with desk and phone) whether any of the
Polish drivers nearby are available and if they are, they're sent on
the job. They're paid by the Polish branch which is, on paper, acting
as a subcontractor for the local branch but because the employees are
classed as being employed by the Warsaw branch being given the work
from there, they're not subject to NMW laws in this country.

I suspect this may not last because many Polish drivers don't like it
and its getting a lot of other agencies backs up.


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

On 7 May, 14:25, "steve robinson"
wrote:
wrote:
As I say, I do not know anything about the industry, but it seems to
me that if it is ecconomical for the foreign owned trucks to come here
with full tanks to deliver between 2 sites within the UK, why is it
not ecconomical for UK trucks to go to the continent, fill up and then
return to do the same job?

Because they are still paying uk rates to the drivers who are also
covered by the maximium driving hours legislation , and you add another
ferry journey into the equation , the eu drivers rarely go over to the
continient empty .

I say again, if you cannot compete on wages then do something about
it. Do not expect everyone else to support an unecconomic industry.
The europe wide competion for labour has made everyone have to think
about their competativness.

And if the EU drivers can find loads to take over the channel, then
why can uk drivers not?

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different to
the eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with large
belly tanks under thier trailers

That is a very good issue. I thought regulations concerning HGV's had
been standardised accross europe, for things like this and also
driving hours (and speed limits, hence the 56 mph limit). If this
standardisation has not taken place, then should that not be the
subject of the protests?

I have a friend that used to have wagons doing continental runs it was
standard proceedure for them to come back to the uk full of fuel then
the nigh****chman used to empty the wagons tanks overnight into his uk
fleet , leaving his trucks just enough to get to calais again to fill
up , he reckoned it saved him over £250000 a year

There, a change to business practice that alows uk companies to
compete. If people are willing to be flexable I cannot see why the UK
cannot compete perferctly well.

wrote:

On 7 May, 14:15, Conor wrote:
In article 13483505-4791-4da9-9281-69a81beef318@
26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com, *says...


What I do not get is why not? I would assume the haulage
industry is close to a free market, so if the cost to supply a
service is going up, why do the hauliers not raise their prices?

Because for some wierd reason, the customer dictates how much
they'll pay to a point. You're also competing with foreigners
running on cheaper diesel.

And then...

As I say, I do not know anything about the industry, but it seems
to me that if it is ecconomical for the foreign owned trucks to
come here with full tanks to deliver between 2 sites within the
UK, why is it not ecconomical for UK trucks to go to the
continent, fill up and then return to do the same job?

Because the lorries I drive typically do 8MPG and have 400 litre
tanks with a lot of the work being everywhere within 4hrs driving
of Hull. It isn't financially viable to. If you run 1500 litre
tanks, there's the weight penalty to think of.

It only works for those based in the South East.

So it seems to me that in the south east people have to compete with
people who buy cheap deseil on the continent, and people in Hull do
not. So where is the problem? If it is cheaper to buy fuel abroad buy
fuel abroad and compete, if it is cheaper to buy fuel here then buy
fuel here and compete. If you need to shedule jobs between hull and
dover to make use of the traveling time, be more flexable and do
that. I know the "fuel torist" solution is far from ideal, especially
for the environment and the exchequer, but for the indavidual company
involved it has to be better than closure.

Customers dictate collection and delivery points and times not the
haulage companies , if the company we use couldnt deliver when i want
then we call someone else who will

I am sure there is something else at work here, the people in charge
of these companies must have thought of this. I want to know what it
is, and find it hard to accept the "blame the foreigner" reason that
crops up so commonly.




--

Conor wrote:

In article , Adrian says...
"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

They are competing against foreign owned trucks who fill up
outside the UK where desiel is cheaper

So how come UK truckers can't take their trucks on a boozecruise,
if it makes so much difference?

8MPG and an overnight ferry or a 320 mile trip to Dover.

Funny how UK truck drivers vary between hideously underpaid and
raking it in, depending on the point trying to be made...

Depends on your definition of a good wage. Currently I'm on £9.50/hr.

I can get a pole that will do it for £2.00 thats were the problem lies
and he will sleep in his cab and not want any overnight allowance

Many eastern eruopean drivers will happliy work for 10p per mile some
will take as little as 5 p per mile ,
--

On 7 May, 14:42, "steve robinson"
wrote:
wrote:
So it seems to me that in the south east people have to compete with
people who buy cheap deseil on the continent, and people in Hull do
not. *So where is the problem? If it is cheaper to buy fuel abroad buy
fuel abroad and compete, if it is cheaper to buy fuel here then buy
fuel here and compete. *If you need to shedule jobs between hull and
dover to make use of the traveling time, be more flexable and do
that. *I know the "fuel torist" solution is far from ideal, especially
for the environment and the exchequer, but for the indavidual company
involved it has to be better than closure.

Customers dictate collection and delivery points and times not the
haulage companies , if the company we use couldnt deliver when i want
then we call someone else who will

And how is that diferent for the poles that are undercutting the UK
companies?

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Yeah, but most people do not go to france for their booze and baccy. If
if is more profitable to buy your fuel in france and do your driving in
the UK, then every company should be doing it, so they would sell no
fuel to HGV drivers.

But you've not done the maths. 8MPG, 400-500l tanks.

900 mile range.

Tell me how its
viable for any company save those based or having loads in the SE?

So how is it viable for Johnny Foreigner? C'mon, Conor, surely the same
basic maths apply...?

On 7 May, 14:47, "steve robinson"
wrote:
Conor wrote:
In article , Adrian says...
"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

They are competing against foreign owned trucks who fill up
outside the UK where desiel is cheaper

So how come UK truckers can't take their trucks on a boozecruise,
if it makes so much difference?

8MPG and an overnight ferry or a 320 mile trip to Dover.

Funny how UK truck drivers vary between hideously underpaid and
raking it in, depending on the point trying to be made...

Depends on your definition of a good wage. Currently I'm on £9.50/hr.

I can get a pole that will do it for £2.00 *thats were the problem lies
and he will sleep in his cab and not want any overnight allowance

Many eastern eruopean drivers will happliy work for 10p per mile some
will take as little as 5 p per mile ,

I think this is it. As in so many other industries people from
eastern europe are willing to work harder for less money than UK
nationals. In the end this will make the UK more efficent and able to
compete on a global level. It will make life harder for some people
in the short term, but in the long term it will mean that the uk is a
player in the global ecconomy rather that some protectionist backwater
trying and failing to get rich washing each others clothes.

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Because for some wierd reason, the customer dictates how much they'll
pay to a point.

Only as far as somebody's willing to supply for that price. If nobody
was, the price would either go up or the goods wouldn't get shifted.

You're also competing with foreigners running on cheaper diesel.

But you just told us cheap diesel didn't apply to people doing runs like
yours in your area. Make your mind up.

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

the eu drivers rarely go over to the continient empty .

So why can't UK hauliers?

KotR is always going on about his long distance runs - tank up on the
continent on the way back, then swap trucks for tomorrow with the guy
who's doing a Scotland run, whilst he heads off on the ferry empty. Easy.

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different to the
eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with large belly
tanks under thier trailers

So why can't UK hauliers...?

"steve robinson" wrote in message
...

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different to
the eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with large
belly tanks under thier trailers

ISTR they're not allowed any more. Well, not on our side of the border
anyway, which means they can't get any benefit from them.

clive