Tunku wrote:
"Ivan" wrote in
:

A few short months ago the prospect of diesel fuel breaking through
the £1.00 a litre barrier appeared to be unlikely, but with it now
costing over £1.20 a liter that's nudging £5.50 a gallon, this got me
wondering just how much it would have to reach before people on this
newsgroup reached a point where they would be seriously thinking about
giving up their car? .. My own threshold would be somewhere around
£10.00 a gallon and that would be it.


It really depends on whether my work will give me a payrise that reflects
the real cost of inflation, rather than the limp labour version.

It's unlikely.

The depressing thing is that a lot of non-essentials (think consumer
electronics) are cheaper than ever, but all the stuff you need (food,
electricity, gas, diesel, petrol for example) is skyrocketing in cost.

Chris Bartram gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

The depressing thing is that a lot of non-essentials (think consumer
electronics) are cheaper than ever, but all the stuff you need (food,
electricity, gas, diesel, petrol for example) is skyrocketing in cost.

Funny how it all balances out to 2% inflation, isn't it?

It's enough to get a good conspiracy theory going...

In article f99a6c55-60da-4169-847b-84c8d8ef70a9
@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com, says...
On 7 May, 10:50, Conor wrote:
The hauliers are going out of business because although the retailers
etc are upping the price, using the rise in fuel costs as an excuse,
the rates the hauliers are getting isn't going up.

One owner driver on the trucknet forums says his diesel bill is now
£240 a week more than a year ago and its hurting hard.

What I do not get is why not? I would assume the haulage industry is
close to a free market, so if the cost to supply a service is going
up, why do the hauliers not raise their prices?

Because for some wierd reason, the customer dictates how much they'll
pay to a point. You're also competing with foreigners running on
cheaper diesel.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article 13483505-4791-4da9-9281-69a81beef318@
26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com, says...

As I say, I do not know anything about the industry, but it seems to
me that if it is ecconomical for the foreign owned trucks to come here
with full tanks to deliver between 2 sites within the UK, why is it
not ecconomical for UK trucks to go to the continent, fill up and then
return to do the same job?

Because the lorries I drive typically do 8MPG and have 400 litre tanks
with a lot of the work being everywhere within 4hrs driving of Hull. It
isn't financially viable to. If you run 1500 litre tanks, there's the
weight penalty to think of.

It only works for those based in the South East.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

They are competing against foreign owned trucks who fill up outside
the UK where desiel is cheaper

So how come UK truckers can't take their trucks on a boozecruise, if
it makes so much difference?

They still couldnT compete with Eastern european wage costs

even befoe vat is a consideration

You might like to look into EU VAT rules.

i have vat on desiel is far higher in most eu states but is
reclaimable if your vat registered in that country so the effective net
cost of fuel is far lower ,


road tax is far lower

£280/yr for a 38t 3-axle trailer artic here.

and you can get a driver for penuts .

Funny how UK truck drivers vary between hideously underpaid and
raking it in, depending on the point trying to be made...


It also depends on what vehicles they are driving and from where the
goods are being delivered , if they are driving petrol tankers they
can earn 50000 a year general haulage is far less , i can get 5 tonne
load delivered from elland in yorkshire to ross on wye for £280.00

We were paying that 5 years ago , the only difference bieng the company
now only employs polish drivers who work through an employment agency
based in poland , you can bet your last pound they are not being paid
the minimum wage as they are not subject to uk wage laws



--

In article e160ece3-f00c-4d0d-b64b-38f17e0935b0
@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com, says...

Yeah, but most people do not go to france for their booze and baccy.
If if is more profitable to buy your fuel in france and do your
driving in the UK, then every company should be doing it, so they
would sell no fuel to HGV drivers.

But you've not done the maths. 8MPG, 400-500l tanks. Tell me how its
viable for any company save those based or having loads in the SE?

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article , Adrian says...
"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

They are competing against foreign owned trucks who fill up outside the
UK where desiel is cheaper

So how come UK truckers can't take their trucks on a boozecruise, if it
makes so much difference?

8MPG and an overnight ferry or a 320 mile trip to Dover.

Funny how UK truck drivers vary between hideously underpaid and raking it
in, depending on the point trying to be made...

Depends on your definition of a good wage. Currently I'm on £9.50/hr.


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

wrote:

On 7 May, 12:06, "steve robinson"
wrote:
Duncan Wood wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2008 11:04:34 +0100, wrote:

On 7 May, 10:50, Conor wrote:
The hauliers are going out of business because although the
retailers etc are upping the price, using the rise in fuel
costs as an excuse, the rates the hauliers are getting isn't
going up.

One owner driver on the trucknet forums says his diesel bill
is now £240 a week more than a year ago and its hurting hard.

What I do not get is why not? *I would assume the haulage
industry is close to a free market, so if the cost to supply a
service is going up, why do the hauliers not raise their
prices? *Presumably this is hitting everyone the same, as the
global costs have gone up. *The only explanation I can think of
(while knowing next to nothing about how the industry works) is
that they have somehow got into multi year fixed price
contracts, but surely the cost of crude has been on the rise
for long enough now that anyone would include the cost of
deseil into the contract price? The other possibiliy may be
some sort of starbuck style loss making by a big player, but
surely then they would be the target of protests rather the
desiel tax.

& there are more hauliers than work available.

They are competing against foreign owned trucks who fill up outside
the UK where desiel is cheaper even befoe vat is a consideration ,
road tax is far lower and you can get a driver for penuts .

Many eastern european drivers drive on a piece work rate sometimes
as low as 10 pence a mile *, sleeping in thier cabs , no uk based
company can compete with this ,The drivers often break driver hours
rules and have scant reguard to our traffic regulations because the
chances of prosecution and licence loss is remote

As I say, I do not know anything about the industry, but it seems to
me that if it is ecconomical for the foreign owned trucks to come here
with full tanks to deliver between 2 sites within the UK, why is it
not ecconomical for UK trucks to go to the continent, fill up and then
return to do the same job?


Because they are still paying uk rates to the drivers who are also
covered by the maximium driving hours legislation , and you add another
ferry journey into the equation , the eu drivers rarely go over to the
continient empty .

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different to
the eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with large
belly tanks under thier trailers


I have a friend that used to have wagons doing continental runs it was
standard proceedure for them to come back to the uk full of fuel then
the nigh****chman used to empty the wagons tanks overnight into his uk
fleet , leaving his trucks just enough to get to calais again to fill
up , he reckoned it saved him over £250000 a year

As far as people being willing to work for less, I fear that is the
way the world is going. If you cannot command a higher price for your
work that someone else then you have to work for what they are willing
to work for, or retrain to make sure you can command the salery you
want. This is more true for transferable jobs than location based
ones such as delivery driving.



--

On 7 May, 14:15, Conor wrote:
In article 13483505-4791-4da9-9281-69a81beef318@
26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com, *says...


What I do not get is why not? I would assume the haulage industry is
close to a free market, so if the cost to supply a service is going
up, why do the hauliers not raise their prices?

Because for some wierd reason, the customer dictates how much they'll
pay to a point. You're also competing with foreigners running on
cheaper diesel.

And then...

As I say, I do not know anything about the industry, but it seems to
me that if it is ecconomical for the foreign owned trucks to come here
with full tanks to deliver between 2 sites within the UK, why is it
not ecconomical for UK trucks to go to the continent, fill up and then
return to do the same job?

Because the lorries I drive typically do 8MPG and have 400 litre tanks
with a lot of the work being everywhere within 4hrs driving of Hull. It
isn't financially viable to. If you run 1500 litre tanks, there's the
weight penalty to think of.

It only works for those based in the South East.

So it seems to me that in the south east people have to compete with
people who buy cheap deseil on the continent, and people in Hull do
not. So where is the problem? If it is cheaper to buy fuel abroad buy
fuel abroad and compete, if it is cheaper to buy fuel here then buy
fuel here and compete. If you need to shedule jobs between hull and
dover to make use of the traveling time, be more flexable and do
that. I know the "fuel torist" solution is far from ideal, especially
for the environment and the exchequer, but for the indavidual company
involved it has to be better than closure.

I am sure there is something else at work here, the people in charge
of these companies must have thought of this. I want to know what it
is, and find it hard to accept the "blame the foreigner" reason that
crops up so commonly.

Adrian wrote:

gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

And I ment to add, this sort of thing is the only way I can
imagine changing the guvments mind about fuel duty, if they are
getting nothing because people are buying fuel abroad.

Mmm. It's worked so well with booze & baccy...

Yeah, but most people do not go to france for their booze and
baccy. If if is more profitable to buy your fuel in france and do
your driving in the UK, then every company should be doing it, so
they would sell no fuel to HGV drivers. This would be a bit
different from the very ocasional trip over the channel for ciggies.

Diesel is not much cheaper in France than in the UK - or, at least,
wasn't over Easter weekend... Likewise petrol.

Belgium etc? Dunno.

Big difference in net cost , the cost by the ports is always high
stupid toursits fill up thinking they have saved money --