Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Conor its obvous that adrian doesnt live in the real world has
never run a business has no idea of operating costs or the fact
that legislation and taxation is often skewed against us in the uk

There, my friend, you'd be wrong. It's nearly a decade since I had a
"proper job".

As for operating costs - I even pay rent on business premises. It's
so much more professional than having my home address on my website.
You should try it.

My home is my registered address , why shouldnt i use it , its
convienent for both me and my customers , 99% of the work i undertake
is on the customers own premises , i dont need an office at the
joinery shop .I get far more done in my office at home , i can work the
hours i want to suite me

Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Conor its obvous that adrian doesnt live in the real world has
never run a business has no idea of operating costs or the fact
that legislation and taxation is often skewed against us in the uk

There, my friend, you'd be wrong. It's nearly a decade since I had a
"proper job".

As for operating costs - I even pay rent on business premises. It's
so much more professional than having my home address on my website.
You should try it.

just looked at the website , All the customer names are exactly as the
customers themselves spell them even to the capitalization
--

Conor wrote:
In article b9163a39-4d13-4d59-a314-8f14f5f8c785
@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com, says...


I think this is it. As in so many other industries people from
eastern europe are willing to work harder for less money than UK
nationals. In the end this will make the UK more efficent and able to
compete on a global level. It will make life harder for some people
in the short term, but in the long term it will mean that the uk is a
player in the global ecconomy rather that some protectionist backwater
trying and failing to get rich washing each others clothes.


Great, thanks. So 1 million HGV drivers are faced with national minimum
wage or unemployment despite spending over £2500 getting their licences

So you think that spending £2500 and a few weeks (?) training to get
into a career that a fairly large proportion of the world (what, 10% to
40% at a guess) could do if given said training, and requires a demand
for large amounts of goods travelling around the world by internal
combustion engine is a good and complete carrer plan?

I have spent many years and, if you include the time spent on low pay
when I could be earning more, many thousands of pounds getting to a
position were I feel I can compete against anyone anywhere in the world
in my field, yet never have felt sucure enough in affording either a
morgage or children so have forgon those luxuries. I have always shared
accomodation.

If you feel you are unable or unwilling to compete on a european level
then you really should think about your life plan, and if that means a
carear change at 50 something then you may be in trouble.

and with the average age of HGV drivers being 53, no likelihood of
employment ever again just so Joe Public can pay below the real cost of
goods?

I can't see how adding 1 million people to the dole queue makes us more
efficient.

It is not about that, it is about the country not carrying an inefficent
industry.

It seems to me there are 2 classes of complaint:

- UK regulations, or poles not following EU regulations. I am all for
deregulation, and tightening up enforcement if absolutely needed. You
have to wonder why poles are so capable of getting away with flouting UK
regulations in the uk, are these not criminal laws? That is were we
should put our effort.

- Differing tax schemes around europe, or some people willing to work
for less or have poorer working conditions. This is what cometition is
about. I would love to live in a world where everyone had enough to eat
and could live a full and happy life, but I do not. Everyone has to
learn that noone owes them a job and they had better make sure they can
compete, and nowadays that means in a global marketplace.

On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:37:06 +0100, I waved a wand and this message
magically appears in front of Conor:

Great, thanks. So 1 million HGV drivers are faced with national
minimum wage or unemployment despite spending over £2500 getting
their licences and with the average age of HGV drivers being 53, no
likelihood of employment ever again just so Joe Public can pay below
the real cost of goods?

I can't see how adding 1 million people to the dole queue makes us
more efficient.

There are only about 250,000 UK registered lorries.
--
http://www.munted.org.uk

Fearsome grindings.

Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Are you claiming that nearly £300/week before tax - £15k per
annum - isn't "reasonable" and enough to live on for a single man?

Yes renting a flat is going to cost them £6000 a year

Better find a flatmate to share it, then.

Why should they

, council tax circa £1000

Shared with the flatmate.

Utlity bills inc telephone £2600 a year

Do **** RIGHT off. My gas and electricity bills - for a lamentably
energy- inefficient Victorian detached house - are less than half
that. well you must be very lucky then

As for phone - what's wrong with chucking a fiver on the PAYG mobile
and using it sparingly? because a 5 wouldnt last you a week

thats out of a take home of £12800 approx a year thats before food

Good, cheap, wholesome fresh fruit and veg. Couple of quid a day.
Junk food, pizzas, burgers etc are luxuries.

your now talking fantasy land a bottle of milk is £1.34 a loaf of
bread is at least a £1.00 , apples £1.00 a pound same with cabbages

transport

Walk or cycle to work.

Not always feasable

and clothing costs or the money needed to set up home

Charity shop and recycled furniture projects.

Why should someone whoes working have to buy basic requirements from
a charity shop


if you throw in £3000 for food clothing and transport to and from
work that leaves them with a £5.00 a week

Hiho. Looks like a second job in the evenings, and cutting down on
the beer and fags.

Ever heard of the working time directive if you have got to spend all
your waking hours working to exist then thiers a serous problem

Your posting address - colevalleyinteriors - your name is on the
site as running the business. How much do you pay unskilled or
semi-skilled labour?

Depends on age and experience

unskilled labour ranges from £7.00 per hour for a 16 year old
straight from school up to £10.00 hour

Not a lot more than the £7 example.
it is for a sixteen year old straight from school , take into account
the other benifits then that come with that it was considerably more
than what your example highlighted

All transport costs are provided for as are all work clothes PPe I
usally end up buying all the breakfasts and lunches as well (out my
own pocket )

So we can knock the food and transport costs right out of the example
you gave.

No the food and transport is in addition to the hourly rate not instead
of

By the way, have you considered getting somebody vaguely literate
to proof-read your site? It really doesn't act as a very good
advert.

Its in the process of being updated so its possibly disjointed , i
will have a look at it later , what have you picked up on

Where to start...?

Look, Steve, separate from anything else, you really should admit
that your standard of literacy is not high. For the argument at hand,
that's irrelevant. For your website - the face of your business - it
is very relevant. Your capitalisation and punctuation are abysmal.
You've mis- spelled the names of your customers. It doesn't speak
highly of your attention to detail as a business.

those so called chavs are living in the uk with the costs that
are associated with being a uk resident

So are the migrant workers.

Yes but 10 blokes living in a house can live quite cheaply if they
are all wage earners far cheaper than your average family with one
full time worker one partime worker / full time and childminder
costs

Do the maths two wage earners will pay proportionatly more per head
than 10 ,

The chavs had better find a flatmate, then.

, often you will find 10 or 12 living in one house sharing the
costs makes it feasable to live here

Even ignoring the obvious exaggeration, what's so bad about house-
sharing? Why shouldn't people share houses/flats? Can't afford
broadband/satellite/beer/fags/bling for the Saxo? Better take a
second job, then. Just like the migrant workers often do.

Sharing only works if your single , if you have a family then it
will never work

Perhaps they could have thought of that before getting Kylie up the
duff before they could afford to properly provide for their family.
It's not like this is a Catholic country, where contraception's
seriously disapproved of. Like, oooh, Poland is.



--

David Jones wrote:

Conor wrote:
In article b9163a39-4d13-4d59-a314-8f14f5f8c785
@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com, says...


I think this is it. As in so many other industries people from
eastern europe are willing to work harder for less money than UK
nationals. In the end this will make the UK more efficent and
able to compete on a global level. It will make life harder for
some people in the short term, but in the long term it will mean
that the uk is a player in the global ecconomy rather that some
protectionist backwater trying and failing to get rich washing
each others clothes.


Great, thanks. So 1 million HGV drivers are faced with national
minimum wage or unemployment despite spending over £2500 getting
their licences

So you think that spending £2500 and a few weeks (?) training to get
into a career that a fairly large proportion of the world (what, 10%
to 40% at a guess) could do if given said training, and requires a
demand for large amounts of goods travelling around the world by
internal combustion engine is a good and complete carrer plan?

I have spent many years and, if you include the time spent on low pay
when I could be earning more, many thousands of pounds getting to a
position were I feel I can compete against anyone anywhere in the
world in my field, yet never have felt sucure enough in affording
either a morgage or children so have forgon those luxuries. I have
always shared accomodation.

If you feel you are unable or unwilling to compete on a european
level then you really should think about your life plan, and if that
means a carear change at 50 something then you may be in trouble.

and with the average age of HGV drivers being 53, no likelihood of
employment ever again just so Joe Public can pay below the real
cost of goods?

I can't see how adding 1 million people to the dole queue makes us
more efficient.

It is not about that, it is about the country not carrying an
inefficent industry.

It seems to me there are 2 classes of complaint:

- UK regulations, or poles not following EU regulations. I am all
for deregulation, and tightening up enforcement if absolutely needed.
You have to wonder why poles are so capable of getting away with
flouting UK regulations in the uk, are these not criminal laws?
That is were we should put our effort.


Very easy most of the offences they commit are non or rarely arrestable
in the uk once out the uk he police do not chase the culprits up as
its not cost effective to chase them , Polish driving licences are very
easy to get , you can buy them on the net for a few pounds , to all
intense and purposes they are genuine , the uk police cannot varyfy
these licences at the roadside or endorse or apply points to them
o


- Differing tax schemes around europe, or some people willing to work
for less or have poorer working conditions. This is what cometition
is about. I would love to live in a world where everyone had enough
to eat and could live a full and happy life, but I do not. Everyone
has to learn that noone owes them a job and they had better make sure
they can compete, and nowadays that means in a global marketplace.

On a level playing field the british workforce is one of the best in
the world

--

In article , David Jones
says...

So you think that spending £2500 and a few weeks (?) training to get
into a career that a fairly large proportion of the world (what, 10% to
40% at a guess) could do if given said training, and requires a demand
for large amounts of goods travelling around the world by internal
combustion engine is a good and complete carrer plan?

If so many people can do it, how come the failure rate is so high
especially when you consider the applicants have been driving years so
it's not like a learner car driver

I can't see how adding 1 million people to the dole queue makes us more
efficient.

It is not about that, it is about the country not carrying an inefficent
industry.

How is it inefficient? There are 10,000 FEWER lorries than in the 50's
shifting over twice the tonnage five times the distance despite more
and more rules being introduced which have reduced the amount of work a
driver can do. Also it's an industry working with profit margins
typically of 3%. You don't last long if you're not efficient.


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article , Alex
Buell says...
On Wed, 7 May 2008 18:37:06 +0100, I waved a wand and this message
magically appears in front of Conor:

Great, thanks. So 1 million HGV drivers are faced with national
minimum wage or unemployment despite spending over £2500 getting
their licences and with the average age of HGV drivers being 53, no
likelihood of employment ever again just so Joe Public can pay below
the real cost of goods?

I can't see how adding 1 million people to the dole queue makes us
more efficient.

There are only about 250,000 UK registered lorries.

450,000 actually. There were 460,000 in 1959.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Ivan wrote:
Ivan wrote:
Adrian wrote:
Chris Bartram gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were Saying:

The depressing Thing is that a lot of non-essentials (think
consumer electronics) are cheaper than ever, but all the stuff you
need (food, electricity, gas, diesel, petrol for example) is
skyrocketing in cost.

Funny how it all balances out to 2% inflation, isn't it?

It's enough to get a good conspiracy theory going...

We have been importing deflation from China since the early nineties,
with Gordon only too willing to take all of the credit by telling us
it was all down to his 'Mr Prudent' no boom and bust style of
management, seems to me that he got out just the right time, just
when it all started to fall apart at the seams, and now the fall guy
Darling is having to take most of the flak.
Did anyone hear what Paddy Ashdown had to say on Question Time this
week?.. In essence he told the audience that as far as cheap energy
and travel goes, the party is now over for good.

It doesn't get any better.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7387203.stm

I wonder just how much is down to the friggin' numpties on the trading
floors, shouting and screaming at each other worse than a kids tea-party in
a zoo - easy to mis-hear and put the price up I would think )

Seriously though, it seems that prices are driven up by *worries* about this
and *fears* about that, and the *possibility* of the other - the *actual*
situation hasn't *actually* happened, but the fact that something *may*
happen pushes prices up. And then the media talk it up even further.

"steve robinson" wrote in message
...

just looked at the website , All the customer names are exactly as the
customers themselves spell them even to the capitalization

You looking at a different website to me?

http://www.colevalleyinteriors.co.uk/

Have a google for some of the names on there to see how the customers
present their names to the public.

I can see 11 names. 9 of them look wrong.

White hall
Blue Diamond
Bible college of wales
Coventant Ministries
Druckers
Bags etc
Coventry University
Crosby homes
Crane care
Solihull education
Radstock coop

Then fix it, and fix the insane width while you're at it...