Adrian wrote:

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do
whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That
is called a flexable labour market.

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are
they supposed to do?

Semi-retire?

With what?

All the money they saved up during the glory days when there weren't
enough truck drivers, and money was being thrown at them?


Is that the same money they are having to spend now to replace the
wagons with euro iv compatable vehicles

In article , Adrian says...
Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

So why can't Large British Artics use 2,000 litre tanks, too?

Are you ****ing stupid? You save £2-400 on the fuel but it costs you
£250 in wages, £40 in subsistence allowance, £100 in ferry fares, £30 in
diesel getting to and from the port and the loss of revenue as the wagon
isn't available for THREE DAYS as it's sat crossing the North Sea.

Yeah...really worth it isn't it?

SO HOW COME IT'S SO MUCH CHEAPER IF THE TRUCK HAS A POLISH PLATE ON IT?

THE TRUCK HAS DRIVEN THE SAME DISTANCE FROM THAT CHEAP PUMP TO HOWDEN'S
FACTORY. IT HAS CROSSED THE WATER WITH THE SAME LIKELIHOOD OF A LOAD
HEADING OUT OF THE UK.

BECAUSE ITS BRINGING A ****ING LOAD INTO THE UK IN THE FIRST PLACE.
They only need to make enough money from a backload to cover the costs.
They don't need to make a profit on it as they've made that on the
inbound load.

The Howdens Kitchens wagon isn't taking a load - it's dead money. It's
not worth taking a load as it wouldn't be doing the European leg of the
journey so could only feasibly charge for taking it from the customer
to the dock.

But then you're reducing the availability of the wagon to do Howdens
Joinery work as it would have to be taken off that to go do the
collection.

The only difference is the pay for the driver - and since British truck
drivers are on more than minimum wage, the minimum wage legislation isn't
relevant. Corporation tax isn't relevant if the company isn't making a
profit, either.

And the fuel. And the fact the driver is likely running bent so they're
only paying one driver to do two drivers work. And the vehicle leasing
costs. And the maintenance costs etc etc. And the fact its already made
its money with the inbound load. And the fact its not being taken off
the work it normally does.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article , Adrian says...
Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do
whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That is
called a flexable labour market.

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are
they supposed to do?

Semi-retire?

With what?

All the money they saved up during the glory days when there weren't
enough truck drivers, and money was being thrown at them?

Oh you mean the 80's glory days where there was an oversupply of
drivers?

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Are you claiming that nearly £300/week before tax - £15k per annum -
isn't "reasonable" and enough to live on for a single man?

Yes renting a flat is going to cost them £6000 a year

Better find a flatmate to share it, then.

, council tax circa £1000

Shared with the flatmate.

Utlity bills inc telephone £2600 a year

Do **** RIGHT off. My gas and electricity bills - for a lamentably energy-
inefficient Victorian detached house - are less than half that.

As for phone - what's wrong with chucking a fiver on the PAYG mobile and
using it sparingly?

thats out of a take home of £12800 approx a year thats before food

Good, cheap, wholesome fresh fruit and veg. Couple of quid a day. Junk
food, pizzas, burgers etc are luxuries.

transport

Walk or cycle to work.

and clothing costs or the money needed to set up home

Charity shop and recycled furniture projects.

if you throw in £3000 for food clothing and transport to and from work
that leaves them with a £5.00 a week

Hiho. Looks like a second job in the evenings, and cutting down on the
beer and fags.

Your posting address - colevalleyinteriors - your name is on the site
as running the business. How much do you pay unskilled or semi-skilled
labour?

Depends on age and experience

unskilled labour ranges from £7.00 per hour for a 16 year old straight
from school up to £10.00 hour

Not a lot more than the £7 example.

All transport costs are provided for as are all work clothes PPe I
usally end up buying all the breakfasts and lunches as well (out my own
pocket )

So we can knock the food and transport costs right out of the example you
gave.

By the way, have you considered getting somebody vaguely literate to
proof-read your site? It really doesn't act as a very good advert.

Its in the process of being updated so its possibly disjointed , i will
have a look at it later , what have you picked up on

Where to start...?

Look, Steve, separate from anything else, you really should admit that
your standard of literacy is not high. For the argument at hand, that's
irrelevant. For your website - the face of your business - it is very
relevant. Your capitalisation and punctuation are abysmal. You've mis-
spelled the names of your customers. It doesn't speak highly of your
attention to detail as a business.

those so called chavs are living in the uk with the costs that are
associated with being a uk resident

So are the migrant workers.

Yes but 10 blokes living in a house can live quite cheaply if they are
all wage earners far cheaper than your average family with one full time
worker one partime worker / full time and childminder costs

Do the maths two wage earners will pay proportionatly more per head than
10 ,

The chavs had better find a flatmate, then.

, often you will find 10 or 12 living in one house sharing the costs
makes it feasable to live here

Even ignoring the obvious exaggeration, what's so bad about house-
sharing? Why shouldn't people share houses/flats? Can't afford
broadband/satellite/beer/fags/bling for the Saxo? Better take a second
job, then. Just like the migrant workers often do.

Sharing only works if your single , if you have a family then it will
never work

Perhaps they could have thought of that before getting Kylie up the duff
before they could afford to properly provide for their family. It's not
like this is a Catholic country, where contraception's seriously
disapproved of. Like, oooh, Poland is.

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

What proportion of UK haulage is done by UK drivers in UK trucks,
foreign drivers in UK trucks, and foreign drivers in foreign trucks?

Most of it is UK haulage with UK drivers. THere's only a few thousand
foreign drivers and around 1500 foreign lorries on the road at any time.

It's obviously not a major issue, then.

Conor wrote:

In article asCdnZfmyLFfcbzVnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@plusnet, Clive George
says...
"Conor" wrote in message
...

"Fuel tourism" is unworkable for 99% of UK haulage.

Sounds reasonable to me. So there's a level playing field there.

The problem seems to be an oversupply of haulage capacity, so
prices get pared to the bone and hauliers can't simply charge a
working rate. I thought the great shortage of drivers, as
advertised all over usenet over the past few years, would fix that,
but apparently not.

If there is oversupply, then firms will be going to the wall - it's
what happens in other industry.

Ramage went to the wall 4 weeks ago - not for lack of work.
Quite a few are going to the wall - again, not for lack of work.
Many make their money out of storage - the haulage side running at
break even or very small profit.
There was a large haulier who made a pre-tax profit of £71k last year
and has had to put up with a rise in fuel of £250 a week per lorry. I
wonder what this years figures will be.


What proportion of UK haulage is done by UK drivers in UK trucks,
foreign drivers in UK trucks, and foreign drivers in foreign trucks?

Most of it is UK haulage with UK drivers. THere's only a few thousand
foreign drivers and around 1500 foreign lorries on the road at any
time.

Once we know that we can make an informed judgement about whether
or not the complaints about eg polish drivers and foreign lorries
taking trade are actually making a difference.

BUT the number is set to increase thanks to the fact that the Govt is
to relax the rules on cabotage. At the moment, foreign hauliers can
only get backload and export work. Soon they're going to be allowed a
free for all. Expect Willi Betz and Nobby Dentedangle to bring more
into the UK.

And then there's the road safety issue but I guess you don't give a
**** about that though eh?

i picked up on that a couple of weeks ago , a tv programme showed a
hungarian lorry no tread on his tyres and some with all the internal
structures poking out the rubber , the driver wasnt arrested or fined
just told to get them fixed

A uk driver would have been sacked by his company , possibly lose his
driving licence or lost his operators licence for having a vehicle in
that condition if he was an owner operator

Showed some drivers who hadnt slept in twenty four hours

--

Adrian wrote:

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

What proportion of UK haulage is done by UK drivers in UK trucks,
foreign drivers in UK trucks, and foreign drivers in foreign
trucks?

Most of it is UK haulage with UK drivers. THere's only a few
thousand foreign drivers and around 1500 foreign lorries on the
road at any time.

It's obviously not a major issue, then.

The foriegn drivers are having 10 times the accidents that uk drivers
are

--

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

SO HOW COME IT'S SO MUCH CHEAPER IF THE TRUCK HAS A POLISH PLATE ON IT?

THE TRUCK HAS DRIVEN THE SAME DISTANCE FROM THAT CHEAP PUMP TO HOWDEN'S
FACTORY. IT HAS CROSSED THE WATER WITH THE SAME LIKELIHOOD OF A LOAD
HEADING OUT OF THE UK.

BECAUSE ITS BRINGING A ****ING LOAD INTO THE UK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Truck go one way across water.
Truck come back across water.

Yep, the UK truck would be doing that, just as would the Polish truck.

The only difference is the pay for the driver - and since British truck
drivers are on more than minimum wage, the minimum wage legislation
isn't relevant. Corporation tax isn't relevant if the company isn't
making a profit, either.

And the fuel.

bangs head on table

And the fact the driver is likely running bent so they're only paying
one driver to do two drivers work.

I thought it was really difficult to do that, since VOSA were everywhere
stopping trucks that looked dodgy?

And the vehicle leasing costs.

Is a Merc sold in the UK somehow so much more expensive than one sold in
Poland? If so, why can't the UK trucker buy it in Poland - after all, the
EU free trade rules mean that Merc can't legally refuse to sell like
that. Remember how popular personal import cars used to be?

And the maintenance costs etc etc.

Mmm. I know plenty of people mixing a booze cruise with a car service by
French garages, to save money. Odd how the much, much less frequent
service intervals for wagons don't allow that.

And the fact its not being taken off the work it normally does.

Why on earth WOULDN'T you take a wagon off an unprofitable job to do a
profitable one? If nothing else, it should bring the fee for the
unprofitable one up to profitable levels if they want the load shifting...

Or do the basic laws of supply and demand somehow not apply to freight?

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are
they supposed to do?

Semi-retire?

With what?

All the money they saved up during the glory days when there weren't
enough truck drivers, and money was being thrown at them?

Oh you mean the 80's glory days where there was an oversupply of
drivers?

No, I mean the ones you've been boasting about over the last couple of
years... Unless your posts aren't entirely consistent and truthful? Odd.

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are
they supposed to do?

Semi-retire?

With what?

All the money they saved up during the glory days when there weren't
enough truck drivers, and money was being thrown at them?

Oh you mean the 80's glory days where there was an oversupply of
drivers?

No, I mean the ones you've been boasting about over the last couple of
years... Unless your posts aren't entirely consistent and truthful? Odd.