In article , Adrian says...

Nor, it would seem, do the ones that Johnny Foreigner is apparently doing
on this cheap diesel that they've brought with 'em. Surely UK hauliers
are just as free to bid for runs heading out of the UK as foreign
hauliers are?

Only if they have an international operators licence.
How is that viable for a company doing UK only work?


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article a894fb40-a8d1-474e-bcd8-065ecec78ec2@
56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com, says...

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do
whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That is
called a flexable labour market.

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are they
supposed to do?


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

"Conor" wrote in message
...

"Fuel tourism" is unworkable for 99% of UK haulage.

Sounds reasonable to me. So there's a level playing field there.

The problem seems to be an oversupply of haulage capacity, so prices get
pared to the bone and hauliers can't simply charge a working rate. I thought
the great shortage of drivers, as advertised all over usenet over the past
few years, would fix that, but apparently not.

If there is oversupply, then firms will be going to the wall - it's what
happens in other industry.

What proportion of UK haulage is done by UK drivers in UK trucks, foreign
drivers in UK trucks, and foreign drivers in foreign trucks?

Once we know that we can make an informed judgement about whether or not the
complaints about eg polish drivers and foreign lorries taking trade are
actually making a difference.

cheers,
clive

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

So why can't Large British Artics use 2,000 litre tanks, too?

Are you ****ing stupid? You save £2-400 on the fuel but it costs you
£250 in wages, £40 in subsistence allowance, £100 in ferry fares, £30 in
diesel getting to and from the port and the loss of revenue as the wagon
isn't available for THREE DAYS as it's sat crossing the North Sea.

Yeah...really worth it isn't it?

SO HOW COME IT'S SO MUCH CHEAPER IF THE TRUCK HAS A POLISH PLATE ON IT?

THE TRUCK HAS DRIVEN THE SAME DISTANCE FROM THAT CHEAP PUMP TO HOWDEN'S
FACTORY. IT HAS CROSSED THE WATER WITH THE SAME LIKELIHOOD OF A LOAD
HEADING OUT OF THE UK.

The only difference is the pay for the driver - and since British truck
drivers are on more than minimum wage, the minimum wage legislation isn't
relevant. Corporation tax isn't relevant if the company isn't making a
profit, either.

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do
whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That is
called a flexable labour market.

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are they
supposed to do?

Semi-retire?

In article , Adrian says...
Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do
whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That is
called a flexable labour market.

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are they
supposed to do?

Semi-retire?

With what?

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Did you not see the chavs interviewed on TV outside a job centre
refusing to work for £7/hr picking veg, because they felt it
was too much like hard work?

It is hard work and £7.00 an hour is not a very good wage , i
was earning that 20 years ago , they would probably be better
off on benifits

I think you've just proved my point.

What point that they expect a reasonable wage that they can live on
,

Are you claiming that nearly £300/week before tax - £15k per annum
- isn't "reasonable" and enough to live on for a single man?

Yes renting a flat is going to cost them £6000 a year , council tax
circa £1000 Utlity bills inc telephone £2600 a year thats out of a
take home of £12800 approx a year thats before food transport and
clothing costs or the money needed to set up home if you throw in
£3000 for food clothing and transport to and from work that leaves
them with a £5.00 a week

Your posting address - colevalleyinteriors - your name is on the site
as running the business. How much do you pay unskilled or
semi-skilled labour?

Depends on age and experience

unskilled labour ranges from £7.00 per hour for a 16 year old straight
from school up to £10.00 hour

Semi skilled £ 11.00 hour plus

Skilled £16.00 hour plus

All transport costs are provided for as are all work clothes PPe
I usally end up buying all the breakfasts and lunches as well (out my
own pocket ) if we are local , out of town i cover all meal costs and
accomadation plus pay travelling time at the same payscale as thier
hourly rate , i dont deduct tea breaks or lunch breaks either , so if
they start at 8 and finish at 4.30 they will be paid 8 .5 hours

Generally out of town they are paid a 12.5 hour day

I also operate a system called job and knock , if they get the work
done quicker they get to go home earlier without loss of any pay
I dont generally doc them if they have a dental appointment or doctors
appointment if its less than a couple of hours

If the skilled guys use thier own kit then i replace any blades and pay
for any repairs within reason



By the way, have you considered getting somebody vaguely literate to
proof-read your site? It really doesn't act as a very good advert.


Its in the process of being updated so its possibly disjointed , i will
have a look at it later , what have you picked up on

those so called chavs are living in the uk with the costs that are
associated with being a uk resident

So are the migrant workers.

Yes but 10 blokes living in a house can live quite cheaply if they are
all wage earners far cheaper than your average family with one full
time worker one partime worker / full time and childminder costs

many of the polish men working here have thier families back in
poland

Who they're sending money back to, after paying for rent & food.

Do the maths two wage earners will pay proportionatly more per head
than 10 ,


are prepared to accept standards of accomadation that wouldnt have
been tolerated in the uk 100 years ago

Don't be silly.

, often you will find 10 or 12 living in one house sharing the costs
makes it feasable to live here

Even ignoring the obvious exaggeration, what's so bad about house-
sharing? Why shouldn't people share houses/flats? Can't afford
broadband/satellite/beer/fags/bling for the Saxo? Better take a
second job, then. Just like the migrant workers often do.

Sharing only works if your single , if you have a family then it will
never work


But then you follow up...
they would probably be better off on benifits
correct they probably will however these handouts are paid for by uk
taxation of which they have contributed

********. These chavs haven't done a day's work in their lives. They
wouldn't know how to.

, the other is a nation state that consistantly expects the rest of
the world to bail out a failed regime

Mmm. By sending workers here to bail us out from the results of our
failed benefits and education systems.

I am not saying that some of the chavs need a good kick up the arse
to motivate them , by the same context they have in one way or
another contributed to the uk tax system

...or not...

and as such that sytem makes social payment to those that are not
working

Because they choose not to work for 40% more than the legal minimum
wage, not because there are no jobs.

The minimum wage is an absolute joke , no one could or should even be
expected to live on that

, that system is for the uk citezens not the whole bloody world

Just as well benefits aren't available to those who've come here from
the accession states, then, isn't it?



--

Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do
whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That is
called a flexable labour market.

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are
they supposed to do?

Semi-retire?

With what?

All the money they saved up during the glory days when there weren't
enough truck drivers, and money was being thrown at them?

In article asCdnZfmyLFfcbzVnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@plusnet, Clive George
says...
"Conor" wrote in message
...

"Fuel tourism" is unworkable for 99% of UK haulage.

Sounds reasonable to me. So there's a level playing field there.

The problem seems to be an oversupply of haulage capacity, so prices get
pared to the bone and hauliers can't simply charge a working rate. I thought
the great shortage of drivers, as advertised all over usenet over the past
few years, would fix that, but apparently not.

If there is oversupply, then firms will be going to the wall - it's what
happens in other industry.

Ramage went to the wall 4 weeks ago - not for lack of work.
Quite a few are going to the wall - again, not for lack of work.
Many make their money out of storage - the haulage side running at
break even or very small profit.
There was a large haulier who made a pre-tax profit of £71k last year
and has had to put up with a rise in fuel of £250 a week per lorry. I
wonder what this years figures will be.


What proportion of UK haulage is done by UK drivers in UK trucks, foreign
drivers in UK trucks, and foreign drivers in foreign trucks?

Most of it is UK haulage with UK drivers. THere's only a few thousand
foreign drivers and around 1500 foreign lorries on the road at any
time.

Once we know that we can make an informed judgement about whether or not the
complaints about eg polish drivers and foreign lorries taking trade are
actually making a difference.

BUT the number is set to increase thanks to the fact that the Govt is
to relax the rules on cabotage. At the moment, foreign hauliers can
only get backload and export work. Soon they're going to be allowed a
free for all. Expect Willi Betz and Nobby Dentedangle to bring more
into the UK.

And then there's the road safety issue but I guess you don't give a
**** about that though eh?

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Conor wrote:

In article , Adrian says...
Conor gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do
whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That is
called a flexable labour market.

The average age of lorry drivers THREE YEARS AGO was 53. What are
they supposed to do?

Semi-retire?

With what?


Conor its obvous that adrian doesnt live in the real world has never
run a business has no idea of operating costs or the fact that
legislation and taxation is often skewed against us in the uk

--