Adrian wrote:

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

They can still use them in europe , as long as the tank is
'empty' when they hit the uk and the tank was part of the
trailers original construction then they can still bring the
trailers fitted with them into the uk , it still means they can
run on cheap desiel here in the uk

How, if the tank must be EMPTY when they arrive in the UK?

Most tractor units have one sometimes two or three tanks running at
around 1500ltr capacity , the belly tanks are on the trailer units ,

What many drivers do is uncouple the fuel line , its very rare
that the tank will actually ever be dipped if its not connected ,
even if it is its unlikely that a procecution will take place
unless it is full takes them only a few minutes to reconnect the
tank

Yet UK drivers can't do that?

No because vehicles designed , registered or intended for the uk
market will not meet our construction and use regulations if it has a
belly tank fitted

as i said the playing field is not level
--

"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

Did you not see the chavs interviewed on TV outside a job centre
refusing to work for £7/hr picking veg, because they felt it was
too much like hard work?

It is hard work and £7.00 an hour is not a very good wage , i was
earning that 20 years ago , they would probably be better off on
benifits

I think you've just proved my point.

What point that they expect a reasonable wage that they can live on ,

Are you claiming that nearly £300/week before tax - £15k per annum -
isn't "reasonable" and enough to live on for a single man?

Your posting address - colevalleyinteriors - your name is on the site as
running the business. How much do you pay unskilled or semi-skilled
labour?

By the way, have you considered getting somebody vaguely literate to
proof-read your site? It really doesn't act as a very good advert.

those so called chavs are living in the uk with the costs that are
associated with being a uk resident

So are the migrant workers.

many of the polish men working here have thier families back in poland

Who they're sending money back to, after paying for rent & food.

are prepared to accept standards of accomadation that wouldnt have been
tolerated in the uk 100 years ago

Don't be silly.

, often you will find 10 or 12 living in one house sharing the costs
makes it feasable to live here

Even ignoring the obvious exaggeration, what's so bad about house-
sharing? Why _shouldn't_ people share houses/flats? Can't afford
broadband/satellite/beer/fags/bling for the Saxo? Better take a second
job, then. Just like the migrant workers often do.

But then you follow up...
they would probably be better off on benifits
correct they probably will however these handouts are paid for by uk
taxation of which they have contributed

********. These chavs haven't done a day's work in their lives. They
wouldn't know how to.

, the other is a nation state that consistantly expects the rest of the
world to bail out a failed regime

Mmm. By sending workers here to bail us out from the results of our
failed benefits and education systems.

I am not saying that some of the chavs need a good kick up the arse to
motivate them , by the same context they have in one way or another
contributed to the uk tax system

....or not...

and as such that sytem makes social payment to those that are not
working

Because they choose not to work for 40% more than the legal minimum wage,
not because there are no jobs.

, that system is for the uk citezens not the whole bloody world

Just as well benefits aren't available to those who've come here from the
accession states, then, isn't it?

In article ec50c3de-d338-42f6-9f7d-b66d43f5e91b@
2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com, says...


I say again, if you cannot compete on wages then do something about
it. Do not expect everyone else to support an unecconomic industry.

Such as what? Work 60 hours a week for NMW?

And if the EU drivers can find loads to take over the channel, then
why can uk drivers not?

Because it requires a different type of operators licence for a start.
And then there's insurance etc etc etc. It's not just a case of finding
a load then off you go.

Also there's not many drivers who want to be away from home 2-3 weeks
at a time as well as having to put up with all the crap that's going on
within 4hrs of Calais. Its getting dangerous now.



--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article 1c8912ca-0299-43c7-9291-
, says...

Customers dictate collection and delivery points and times not the
haulage companies , if the company we use couldnt deliver when i want
then we call someone else who will

And how is that diferent for the poles that are undercutting the UK
companies?

They choose specific areas to work in where it is "en-route" back to
the ferries.

How does Howdens Kitchens with their factory in East Yorkshire and
branches all over the UK with their lorries needing refuelling every
day manage to nip over to the continent?

"Fuel tourism" is unworkable for 99% of UK haulage.


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article b9163a39-4d13-4d59-a314-8f14f5f8c785
@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com, says...

I think this is it. As in so many other industries people from
eastern europe are willing to work harder for less money than UK
nationals. In the end this will make the UK more efficent and able to
compete on a global level. It will make life harder for some people
in the short term, but in the long term it will mean that the uk is a
player in the global ecconomy rather that some protectionist backwater
trying and failing to get rich washing each others clothes.

Great, thanks. So 1 million HGV drivers are faced with national minimum
wage or unemployment despite spending over £2500 getting their licences
and with the average age of HGV drivers being 53, no likelihood of
employment ever again just so Joe Public can pay below the real cost of
goods?

I can't see how adding 1 million people to the dole queue makes us more
efficient.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article 06c17a25-93a1-49b9-b7fd-ab8134b48167@
34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, says...

In this case you may be right, and if it is the case that they work
harder it is because the enforcement of driving hours is more lax.
The sleeping in the cab thing you mentioned could be interpreted as
working harder.

Do you like to go home after a days work and sit down on a nice comfy
settee, eat a hot meal, go for a bath, use a toilet whenever you like
and not worrying about the risk of theft or physical attack?


Other industries manage to compete with Polish wages, why not haulage?

Because we have to pay UK fuel duty. Because we have the minimum wage
which is a ****ing joke. BECAUSE UK HAULIERS DONT RUN AS BENT AS THE
POLES DO.



--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article , Adrian says...
Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Yeah, but most people do not go to france for their booze and baccy. If
if is more profitable to buy your fuel in france and do your driving in
the UK, then every company should be doing it, so they would sell no
fuel to HGV drivers.

But you've not done the maths. 8MPG, 400-500l tanks.

900 mile range.

Tell me how its
viable for any company save those based or having loads in the SE?

So how is it viable for Johnny Foreigner? C'mon, Conor, surely the same
basic maths apply...?

1500 Litre tanks. £2/hr wages. Sticking two fingers up to drivers hours
rules. Cheaper fleet leasing costs. No road tax. **** the tyres - they
still hold air etc etc etc.

I once did a run for a foreign haulier as a 2nd man back in 1997. We
took some wind turbine masts from Hull to Buncrana and back. Despite
having 1500 litre tanks, it looked like the driver would need to fuel
up in the UK. Not ****ing likely. He drove into Hull with the needle on
empty and said that as long as there was enough fuel to get off the
ferry at Zebrugge, that'd do. He'd rather risk running out than put a
tenner of diesel in and that was at 1997 prices.


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article , Adrian says...
Conor gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

Because for some wierd reason, the customer dictates how much they'll
pay to a point.

Only as far as somebody's willing to supply for that price. If nobody
was, the price would either go up or the goods wouldn't get shifted.

Sadly someone does - usually as a backload.

You're also competing with foreigners running on cheaper diesel.

But you just told us cheap diesel didn't apply to people doing runs like
yours in your area. Make your mind up.

No, I said that WE can't do runs on cheap diesel in our area. Nothing
to stop Jonny Foreigner.


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article , Adrian says...
"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

You're also competing with foreigners running on cheaper diesel.

But you just told us cheap diesel didn't apply to people doing runs
like yours in your area. Make your mind up.

Not connor but the large foriegn artics with 2000 ltr tanks can still
pick up return loads and transport them around the uk on thier way to
the local ports

So why can't Large British Artics use 2,000 litre tanks, too?

Are you ****ing stupid? You save £2-400 on the fuel but it costs you
£250 in wages, £40 in subsistence allowance, £100 in ferry fares, £30
in diesel getting to and from the port and the loss of revenue as the
wagon isn't available for THREE DAYS as it's sat crossing the North
Sea.

Yeah...really worth it isn't it?

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article , Adrian says...
"steve robinson" gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

the eu drivers rarely go over to the continient empty .

So why can't UK hauliers?

And carry what? We don't have much manufacturing in the UK in case
you've not noticed.

KotR is always going on about his long distance runs - tank up on the
continent on the way back, then swap trucks for tomorrow with the guy
who's doing a Scotland run, whilst he heads off on the ferry empty. Easy.

The maxium fuel carrying capacity of uk wagons is often different to the
eastern european wagons , quite common for them to run with large belly
tanks under thier trailers

So why can't UK hauliers...?

How does that work for say Howdens Kitchens? Fleet of 40 wagons
delivering to Howdens Joinery stores all over the UK from the factory
in Howden.

PLease tell me as you obviously know more.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams