I have a Ford Focus 2004 with a factory-fitted Necam 'hybrid' system
(using a Ford ECU) which is using solenoid injectors.(many thanks to
the very knowledgable Terry of Finedon Classic Conversions for his help
in establishing all this). I'm told that the injectors are pretty
standard units.

When running on LPG I notice that the engine doesn't pull as well as on
petrol, and notice that one of the cylinders sounds like it isn't
giving 100%; the engine sound under load is not right, sound like it
has catarrh, like it has a leaky valve. Obvious at tickover too. Also
the injectors are more noisy than they used to be. Switching back to
petrol puts thing back to normal.

A local LPG fitter seemed to feel that the gas pressure was low. He
increased it slightly (not having the ability to measure it though!) at
the regulator, which seemd to improve things for a while. If low
pressure was responsible I would have thought then that all the
cylinders would behave the same? Do any of the filters in the system
have anything to do with pressures, ie do they clog up and reduce
available pressure?

As the problem seems limited to one cylinder as far as I can see, does
that mean I have a faulty injector? The problem has appeared gradually,
and the injector clatter has got louder gradually (over say 4000 miles)
so I wouldn't have thought it was something in the ECU. I bought the
car at 8k, it is now at 15k.

I am new to LPG but very interested to learn, and am pleased with the
Ford so far; it's a very-nicely integrated system. I hear though that
knowledgable Ford LPG engineers are thin on the ground.

If one cylinder is 'off', will it do any harm to continue to run on
LPG? Don't want to waste my money on petrol unless necessary, while I
am trying to source a solution...

All help gratefully appreciated!

Guy

"The Mac Guy" wrote in message
ps.com...
I have a Ford Focus 2004 with a factory-fitted Necam 'hybrid' system
(using a Ford ECU) which is using solenoid injectors.(many thanks to
the very knowledgable Terry of Finedon Classic Conversions for his help
in establishing all this). I'm told that the injectors are pretty
standard units.

When running on LPG I notice that the engine doesn't pull as well as on
petrol, and notice that one of the cylinders sounds like it isn't
giving 100%; the engine sound under load is not right, sound like it
has catarrh, like it has a leaky valve. Obvious at tickover too. Also
the injectors are more noisy than they used to be. Switching back to
petrol puts thing back to normal.

A local LPG fitter seemed to feel that the gas pressure was low. He
increased it slightly (not having the ability to measure it though!) at
the regulator, which seemd to improve things for a while. If low
pressure was responsible I would have thought then that all the
cylinders would behave the same? Do any of the filters in the system
have anything to do with pressures, ie do they clog up and reduce
available pressure?

As the problem seems limited to one cylinder as far as I can see, does
that mean I have a faulty injector? The problem has appeared gradually,
and the injector clatter has got louder gradually (over say 4000 miles)
so I wouldn't have thought it was something in the ECU. I bought the
car at 8k, it is now at 15k.

I am new to LPG but very interested to learn, and am pleased with the
Ford so far; it's a very-nicely integrated system. I hear though that
knowledgable Ford LPG engineers are thin on the ground.

If one cylinder is 'off', will it do any harm to continue to run on
LPG? Don't want to waste my money on petrol unless necessary, while I
am trying to source a solution...

I cant help with your actual problem, but would caution you by saying that
if you do have a fault thats causing a mixture problem, and its running
lean, either one cylinder, or all (you mention its down on power- it
shouldnt really be noticably down at all compared to petrol, especially on
an SGI conversion) then you are running the risk of burning a valve and/or
seat.

FYI, all the petrol engines in the mk1/2 Focus require supplimental valve
seat lubrication either in the form of a flashlube kit (all engines) OR the
exchange head available from Ford especially for lpg conversions (in the
case of the 1.8 and 2.0 engines only) or you'll end up with burnt valves /
recessed seats after about 50,000miles anyhow. Check you have.

Tim..

Tim..

FYI, all the petrol engines in the mk1/2 Focus require supplimental valve
seat lubrication either in the form of a flashlube kit (all engines) OR
the
exchange head available from Ford especially for lpg conversions (in the
case of the 1.8 and 2.0 engines only) or you'll end up with burnt valves /
recessed seats after about 50,000miles anyhow. Check you have.

I would think that a factory fitted system would be pretty safe in that
respect.

Hi Tim,

Thanks very much for the useful information. Mine is a 1.8. It has no
additional gas installation certificate, the original registration
document identifies it as dual-fuel; I can see no evidence of any
flashlube container (I expect it would be obviously-placed), so I guess
it's 'factory-fitted' LPG with the special Ford head.

Looks like it'd be wise to run on petrol only until I get the problem
sorted. Hopefully no valve or seat damage has occurred (I guess its
susceptibility is somewhat reduced as it should already have the harder
seats).

Any suggestion where I might take it to to get diagnosis-I guess I
would need someone with the Ford software. Is it likely to be a failing
injector, rather than something curable in software? Why I ask is that
if I can't get it Ford-sorted, is it reasonable to have someone replace
the injector?

Thanks!

Hi

My wife has a factory fitted LPG focus on a 51 plate, you can spot them by
the green leaf logo on the tailgate. The lpg system is developed by tickford
and I also have a copy of the manual for it. It doesn't seem to mention
Necam anywhere. I don't know where abouts in the UK you are but I did come
across a knowledgable Ford LPG chap at Hendy Ford at Chandlers Ford,
Eastleigh near Southampton, You could try phoning them and asking to speak
to the guy who does LPG. I can look up his name if you want.

regards

Steve

PS the head on the factory fit focus does have hardened valve seats altough
the service manual recommends checking the the valve clearances more
frequently. They were checked on the wifes focus at the last service and
were all within spec.

PPS - if it's an 04 Focus isn't it covered by Fords 3 year waranty !!


"The Mac Guy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Tim,

Thanks very much for the useful information. Mine is a 1.8. It has no
additional gas installation certificate, the original registration
document identifies it as dual-fuel; I can see no evidence of any
flashlube container (I expect it would be obviously-placed), so I guess
it's 'factory-fitted' LPG with the special Ford head.

Looks like it'd be wise to run on petrol only until I get the problem
sorted. Hopefully no valve or seat damage has occurred (I guess its
susceptibility is somewhat reduced as it should already have the harder
seats).

Any suggestion where I might take it to to get diagnosis-I guess I
would need someone with the Ford software. Is it likely to be a failing
injector, rather than something curable in software? Why I ask is that
if I can't get it Ford-sorted, is it reasonable to have someone replace
the injector?

Thanks!

stevet wrote:
Hi

My wife has a factory fitted LPG focus on a 51 plate, you can spot them by
the green leaf logo on the tailgate. The lpg system is developed by tickford
and I also have a copy of the manual for it. It doesn't seem to mention
Necam anywhere. I don't know where abouts in the UK you are but I did come
across a knowledgable Ford LPG chap at Hendy Ford at Chandlers Ford,
Eastleigh near Southampton, You could try phoning them and asking to speak
to the guy who does LPG. I can look up his name if you want.

regards

Steve

PS the head on the factory fit focus does have hardened valve seats altough
the service manual recommends checking the the valve clearances more
frequently. They were checked on the wifes focus at the last service and
were all within spec.

PPS - if it's an 04 Focus isn't it covered by Fords 3 year waranty !!


Thanks very much for this useful information, Steve. I guess my system
might be a different one as it is a few years younger (I can see a
Necam label on the vapouriser). The Chandlers Ford name would be handy,
though I am unlikely to visit them soon as I am in Lancaster!

When I bought mine, they could not locate a manual for the LPG. even
though yours may be a different system, I would love to get a copy as
it may have some sound advice in it.

It is still under warranty, so I will call Ford locally, and see what
happens next...

Guy

Well I brought it to my local Ford dealer and they were able to check
the petrol side only (I also suspect any faults will not be covered by
warranty; looks like the warranty conditions are different after 12
months)

This group has been very helpful so far, for which I am really
thankful.

It's a real pain having to run on petrol (and my sat-nav system rubs it
in by notifying me every time I drive by an LPG station!). I am staying
on petrol (thanks for the useful advice, Tim!) as a precaution against
too-lean running on that cylinder possibly causing valve burnout.

I'll summarise again here in case anyone has any ideas on the way
forward...

It seems to me that it is a GSI system as shown he

http://www.teleflexgfi.nl/gsi.htm

as most of the components that I can see under the bonnet match those
shown in that picture, rather than any of the other systems shown on
that website.

The LPG ran fine for about 6 months after which I noticed a very
gradual change... one of the cylinders seeming not to pull as well
as the others, and the engine note changes a bit as I switch to LPG,
like one of the cylinders is 'lazy'.

I think it may be running lean. I rather suspect that it isn't
anything to do with the engine-management system (which is where
everyone seems to say "have to take it to Ford"), as it appears not to
be common to all cylinders. I guess I could be wrong there, if the ECU
tampers independently with each cylinder). I wouldn't have thought that
the ECU would reduce the feed one cylinder of gas, certainly not very
gradually over a long period of months.

This fault has been very gradually getting worse over the past few
thousand miles, which is what makes me think that is something either
wearing, or something gradually blocking up (dirt in filter?). Power
under LPG seems less than under petrol. I can hear ticking from the
injectors (or from one of them?), which was not the case when it was
running fine-they were silent (again this ticking is slowly becoming
more pronounced). I am told (by some) that this ticking appears when
there is a lack of gas pressure... could it be that one of the
injectors is failing, or could it be that one of them is being starved
of gas by something in the filter/distributor unit that distributes
the LPG? By the way I notice that the gas distributor has its outlet
pipes labelled 'cyl 1, cyl 2, cyl 3, cyl 4,' yet it appears to be a
passive device with no visible electrical connection-so why are the
outlets labelled?

Ford LPG-capable garages seems to be thin on the ground. Looks like I
would have to travel a very long way to find a Ford place to help. As
this (apart from the ECU?) seems to be a generic system, I wonder if
there is something that could be done by an independent LPG installer.

Thanks!

Guy