In article ,
Pete M wrote:
Are you saying the tool you have works on the same principle as the proper
P6 one? I'm saying that was a poor design.

Not the original P6 tool, the one I used was a Sykes Pickavant one which
I think was for the Ford Granada Mk3 rear brakes. Brilliant it was.

The Rover one was in fact the Girling tool - and could well have been made
by S-P. It's possible there was a better designed one but I've not seen
it. The snag with the Girling one was it would fall off the piston all too
readily - even although it was meant to lock in place. Which meant you had
to hold it in place with one hand while trying to operate it with the
other. Fine on the bench but not so with the restricted access on the P6 -
and I always loosened the rear crossmember to drop the final drive unit a
bit.

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
snip

The Rover one was in fact the Girling tool - and could well have
been made
by S-P. It's possible there was a better designed one but I've not
seen
it. The snag with the Girling one was it would fall off the piston
all too
readily - even although it was meant to lock in place. Which meant
you had
to hold it in place with one hand while trying to operate it with
the
other. Fine on the bench but not so with the restricted access on
the P6 -
and I always loosened the rear crossmember to drop the final drive
unit a
bit.


'We' always disconnected the read drive shafts and dropped the discs
out as well as the pads that were being changed (of course in some
cases the discs were in need of changed also...), this of course was
done on a workshop ramp and with air ratchets etc. available so
working conditions were a lot easier - it's fortunate that I've never
had to grovel under any P6, I do have sympathy for those who have had
to though!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
:Jerry: wrote:
I dunno - it's just conceivable that a G clamp with enough
friction
between its 'pad' and the piston could turn the piston. But I'm
sceptical.


But a G clamp will exert a pushing force to that is likely to
damage
the ratchet mechanism as well as rotating the 'outer' piston,
I very much doubt that - the piston has to withstand the full force
of the
hydraulics. Unless you got it off centre and bent the steel lug that
prevents it from turning in operation.

But remember that you are also turning the piston, I've heard of
crunched and bent ratchets (that is, on a previously working calliper
that then stopped after a pad change), also the braking force on rear
brakes are not great - which is another reason why rear cylinders /
callipers have more of a tendency to seize.


all the
proper Rover tool does (and all that is required) is a turning
motion
[1] - what Conor is suggesting is like suggesting one can torque a
bolt down using a sledge-hammer, sure the force applied force the
two
components together (akin to riveting...) but in doing so one is
sure
to damage the fixing. What I'm saying is, the G clamp will exert
far
more of a pushing force that it will a rotational force due to the
pitch of the respective threads (pitch of G clamp thread vs. the
thread of the adjuster)

I know - which is why I'm sceptical. But without trying it...

Anyway, the only way one could get a G clamp onto a P6 rear
calliper
is to remove the unit first, rather suggests that Conor hasn't even
seen the P6 rear brake assembly let alone worked on it...

I'm not that sure - with both pads removed it might swing far enough
away
from the disc to get some G-clamps in. But again I'm sceptical...


From what I remember, no there won't be, even with the disc removed,
at minimum it would need either a very small G clamp or the calliper
un-shipped from it's carrier on the FD unit.

In article ,
:Jerry: wrote:
also the braking force on rear brakes are not great - which is another
reason why rear cylinders / callipers have more of a tendency to seize.

It's a lot more than you'd get out of a small G-clamp.

--
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
:Jerry: wrote:
also the braking force on rear brakes are not great - which is
another
reason why rear cylinders / callipers have more of a tendency to
seize.

It's a lot more than you'd get out of a small G-clamp.


Yes but it's in the other direction, the hydraulic action works *with*
the ratchet, the G-clamp is working *against* the ratchet (see
below) - at best the ratchet has been designed to resist the force
applied by the parking brake or a warped disc, a G-clamp can easily
exceed either...


Hydraulic force
Ratchet 'thread'
====l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l piston direction
_/ ratchet
X Fixed point

G-clamp force
Ratchet 'thread'
====l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l/l piston direction
_/ ratchet
X Fixed point

:Jerry: wrote:

**** off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
who knows **** all about this

'Prace bets now!'

;-)
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE

SteveH wrote:

:Jerry: wrote:

**** off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
who knows **** all about this

'Prace bets now!'

£5 on "bodger". Oh hang on, this is one of those "each way" situations
isn't it? Probably "both".

In article , :Jerry: says...

"Conor" wrote in message
...
In article , SteveH
says...
Andy Dingley wrote:

On 17 May, 16:31, Conor wrote:

I used a G clamp.

On a P6? Isn't this a design where the handbrake mech means you
can't
simply push them back, but have to screw them in



FFS...It does screw them in. You do it so the screwthreaded bit of
the
g-clamp is acting on the bit you need to rotate and the solid bit is
on
the other side of the caliper the side the piston is on. When the g
clamp is tight enough and you continue to tighten it bites into the
piston and rotates that as well.


**** off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
who knows **** all about this, what you suggest is the quickest way of
wrecking the calliper! BTW I started working on these rear brakes when
they had only just gone out of production - ie. we saw a lot of them
on a daily bases.

I can only go on my experience on the 2000TC I owned. And it works just
as well on the Rover 600's as well.

How does it wreck the caliper, dumbass? You can't apply enough pressure
to **** the thread.


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article , Steve Firth
says...
SteveH wrote:

:Jerry: wrote:

**** off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
who knows **** all about this

'Prace bets now!'

£5 on "bodger". Oh hang on, this is one of those "each way" situations
isn't it? Probably "both".

I didn't have the tool, I needed to wind in the caliper, so I tried it
and it worked. Simple as. After all, there was nothing to lose by
trying.

I take it you, Steve and Jerry are the kind of ****wits who don't know
the meaning of the word "ingenuity" and that if it says you must use
Tool BL1234, you can't do it if you don't have it.

Narrow minded people with a complete inability to think laterally.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Conor wrote:

In article , Steve Firth
says...
SteveH wrote:

:Jerry: wrote:

**** off Conor, you're either a troll or an out-and out-bodging tosser
who knows **** all about this

'Prace bets now!'

£5 on "bodger". Oh hang on, this is one of those "each way" situations
isn't it? Probably "both".

I didn't have the tool, I needed to wind in the caliper, so I tried it
and it worked. Simple as. After all, there was nothing to lose by
trying.

I take it you, Steve and Jerry are the kind of ****wits who don't know
the meaning of the word "ingenuity" and that if it says you must use
Tool BL1234, you can't do it if you don't have it.

Narrow minded people with a complete inability to think laterally.

Erm, but a G-Clamp can, and quite often would, damage the face of the
piston as it would be able to rotate on the face of it without actually
turning the piston - because they don't have the 'pins' to lock onto the
piston as proper tools do.

There's ingenuity and there's bodging.

Using a G-Clamp on a piston that needs winding back, rather than just
pushing back falls into the latter category.
--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Ducati 750SS - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200
Alfa 75 TSpark - Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE