On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:31:33 -0000, "GbH"
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GbH wrote:
I'd say the main reason the excise duty hasn't been abolished and
put on fuel tax is the need to register the vehicle details each
year. It's all very well saying it should be your responsibility to
register any changes only when they happen but many simply wouldn't
bother.

Pardon me for asking, but just what is the NEED to re-register the
vehicle every year, or register it in the first place except as a
revenue generator?

If you can't work that out for yourself I can't be bothered telling
you.

Cos if you blew the cobwebs out of your mind and thought about it?
What does it benefit me to do it?

OK I'll give you a real life example of how it can work in your
favour.

I sold a car for scrap and the V5 either got lost in the post or
wasn't entered correctly at the DVLA. It was the notification of a
failure to SORN that alerted me to the error and allowed me to get it
corrected.

An annual SORN provides a regular check on what vehicles are where. It
costs very little and isn't exactly hard to complete. Why change it
just to benefit the lazy or feckless who can't manage to fill out a
simple form on time?

I've sat on the fence over this whilst the thread has raged on but
perhaps it time to point out that there are other views and folks
often don't express them due to some of the regulars having a tendency
to call anyone who contradicts their views a troll or worse ;(

On 2008-01-29, Tim Jones wrote:

I sold a car for scrap and the V5 either got lost in the post or
wasn't entered correctly at the DVLA. It was the notification of a
failure to SORN that alerted me to the error and allowed me to get it
corrected.

Why is a yearly SORN the only way to notify you? It's still needless
to do it every year.

There's *no* valid excuse for repeating it every year other than to
catch people out who forget and slap a fine on them.

An annual SORN provides a regular check on what vehicles are where. It
costs very little and isn't exactly hard to complete. Why change it
just to benefit the lazy or feckless who can't manage to fill out a
simple form on time?

If more companies and organisations took that attitude, we'd be snowed
under with repeat forms every month.

I've sat on the fence over this whilst the thread has raged on but
perhaps it time to point out that there are other views and folks
often don't express them due to some of the regulars having a tendency
to call anyone who contradicts their views a troll or worse ;(

One side doesn't think things through though.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Tim Jones wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:31:33 -0000, "GbH"
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GbH wrote:
I'd say the main reason the excise duty hasn't been abolished and
put on fuel tax is the need to register the vehicle details each
year. It's all very well saying it should be your responsibility
to register any changes only when they happen but many simply
wouldn't bother.

Pardon me for asking, but just what is the NEED to re-register the
vehicle every year, or register it in the first place except as a
revenue generator?

If you can't work that out for yourself I can't be bothered telling
you.

Cos if you blew the cobwebs out of your mind and thought about it?
What does it benefit me to do it?

OK I'll give you a real life example of how it can work in your
favour.

I sold a car for scrap and the V5 either got lost in the post or
wasn't entered correctly at the DVLA. It was the notification of a
failure to SORN that alerted me to the error and allowed me to get it
corrected.

I'm not sure how that was a benefit to you, so the registration got
screwed up, so what?

An annual SORN provides a regular check on what vehicles are where. It
costs very little and isn't exactly hard to complete. Why change it
just to benefit the lazy or feckless who can't manage to fill out a
simple form on time?

I've sat on the fence over this whilst the thread has raged on but
perhaps it time to point out that there are other views and folks
often don't express them due to some of the regulars having a tendency
to call anyone who contradicts their views a troll or worse ;(



--
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

On or around Tue, 29 Jan 2008 18:42:04 GMT, (Tim
Jones) enlightened us thusly:

I sold a car for scrap and the V5 either got lost in the post or
wasn't entered correctly at the DVLA. It was the notification of a
failure to SORN that alerted me to the error and allowed me to get it
corrected.

Although I think if you notify DVLA you get a form letter saying "thank you
for notifying us that you are no longer the keeper of". ISTR getting
several such over the last year or three.

but you'd not necessarily notice if that didn't arrive. I grant you've
found a positive benefit to annual SORN renewal. Mind you, according to
DVLA they never make such mistakes, of course... That'll be how I've not got
a V5 for the motor outside, then. Somehow, I doubt the dealer I bought it
from didn't send it in, seeing as they must send in several per week. I
KNOW the dealer had the V5 and I KNOW that I filled in my details on it...

so now, I have to send the green slip and a V62. Which will be going by
registered and signed-for post...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

On or around Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:45:38 +0000, Ian Rawlings
enlightened us thusly:

On 2008-01-29, Tim Jones wrote:

I sold a car for scrap and the V5 either got lost in the post or
wasn't entered correctly at the DVLA. It was the notification of a
failure to SORN that alerted me to the error and allowed me to get it
corrected.

Why is a yearly SORN the only way to notify you? It's still needless
to do it every year.

No, I accept that as a genuine benefit. If I sell something on SORN and
send the form in, I promptly forget all about it. If for any reason DVLA
fail to take note (including that the form never got there) it'll still be
registered to me. DVLA won't notify me, seeing from their point of view,
I'm still the keeper. However, if I get a SORN renewal in 3 months or
whatever, I'll be going "WTF!? I sold that 3 months ago!"

In the given scenario, that would be the only way it'd come to light.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

On or around Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:39:56 -0000, "GbH"
enlightened us thusly:

Tim Jones wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:31:33 -0000, "GbH"
wrote:


I sold a car for scrap and the V5 either got lost in the post or
wasn't entered correctly at the DVLA. It was the notification of a
failure to SORN that alerted me to the error and allowed me to get it
corrected.

I'm not sure how that was a benefit to you, so the registration got
screwed up, so what?

In the stated circumstances, I'd want to know that I was still the
registered keeper so I could get it sorted.

I'd not want anything registered to me floating around who-knows-where, and
in the event that the keeper change got screwed up, that would likely be the
way I found out.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

On 2008-01-29, Austin Shackles wrote:

No, I accept that as a genuine benefit. If I sell something on SORN and
send the form in, I promptly forget all about it.

There's one born every minute! :-P

Yearly SORNing isn't the solution to that problem, just one letter
sent out to confirm the change or for you to call them would do it,
it's no justification for a yearly SORN check. After all if you're
that bad at keeping up with things, if you moved or went on holiday
for a long time, or got the letter but put it down somewhere and
forgot about it, you'd be in the **** again.

In the given scenario, that would be the only way it'd come to light.

Only because the current setup does not offer any confirmation of the
passage of responsibility other than the yearly SORN. It's no
substitute for doing it properly.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Austin Shackles wrote:
On or around Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:39:56 -0000, "GbH"
enlightened us thusly:

Tim Jones wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:31:33 -0000, "GbH"
wrote:


I sold a car for scrap and the V5 either got lost in the post or
wasn't entered correctly at the DVLA. It was the notification of a
failure to SORN that alerted me to the error and allowed me to get
it corrected.

I'm not sure how that was a benefit to you, so the registration got
screwed up, so what?

In the stated circumstances, I'd want to know that I was still the
registered keeper so I could get it sorted.

I'd not want anything registered to me floating around
who-knows-where, and in the event that the keeper change got screwed
up, that would likely be the way I found out.

I'm still having difficulty in understanding the benefit(s) of
registration.
I know that's not what your petition is about but no registration no
need for SORN.
The ONLY beneficiary I can see of registration is the revenue!

--
Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

In article ,
Ian Rawlings wrote:
I've sat on the fence over this whilst the thread has raged on but
perhaps it time to point out that there are other views and folks
often don't express them due to some of the regulars having a tendency
to call anyone who contradicts their views a troll or worse ;(

One side doesn't think things through though.

Quite the contrary. SORN was introduced to help prevent abuse of the VED
system. And to try and keep a track on every vehicle off the road which
hasn't been scrapped. For some reason some apparently don't want this. I
can only guess why.

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Austin Shackles wrote:

Although I think if you notify DVLA you get a form letter saying "thank you
for notifying us that you are no longer the keeper of". ISTR getting
several such over the last year or three.

I got one of those a couple of years ago - for a car that was still
mine, I had all the documentation in order and the car was parked
outside my house at the time. DVLA are certainly not infallible!

I have signed the petition, though not because I think that renewing a
SORN is a dreadful chore, but because I think that the penalty for not
renewing is excessive for the gravity of the "crime".

Jim