I seem to have accumulated a few Triumph Vitesse water pumps in various
states of decomposition so it seems a good idea to have a go at
rebuilding one or two.
Anyone know what's involved? The mechanical workshop at my workplace has
a fly-press I could use. Seal kits appear to be available.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:34:36 +0000, Willy Eckerslyke
wrote:

Anyone know what's involved?

Use a hydraulic press (or even better, a big manual rack press). A fly
press will press the seal rapidly into place, no matter whether it's
aligned correctly or not.

Andy Dingley wrote:

Use a hydraulic press (or even better, a big manual rack press). A fly
press will press the seal rapidly into place, no matter whether it's
aligned correctly or not.

Thanks Andy, unfortunately a fly press is all I have access to, so it's
a case of using that or not bothering. I've used it before for removing
bearings from driveshafts and while I realise it's vital that
everythings aligned correctly, it does seem to allow reasonable control.
Is the problem you're alluding to, the fact that you can't stop it
pressing too far - i.e. when you're heaving on it, you can't let go
quick enough when the work starts to move?

I'll try the mankiest looking water pump first. So what's the procedure
for dismantling - support the pulley and push the shaft through, then
support the body and push the shaft + impeller through?

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:46:22 +0000, Willy Eckerslyke
wrote:

unfortunately a fly press is all I have access to,

I'm sure you can find more. The force is low, you don't even need a
"press" as such. They've often been done with screw-thread pullers or
even a big vice.

They're not described in Haynes and my big black Triumph workshop manual
is up North with the Vitesse. I don't think I've ever done a Triumph one
myself (barring my infernal Dolomite Sprint) but they're all much the
same.

There's a fragile impeller at one end and a pulley bracket at the other.
One of these generally unbolts with a number of small bolts and the
other is a single central nut or bolt that can be awkward to undo, owing
to corrosion (heat can be useful). You then need a puller to get the
impeller off - be careful here, an awful lot of impellers have lost
"bite marks" from puller jaws before now. Try to get a C shaped pulling
plate under it instead, not just a couple of hooks.

There are a few pumps where the impeller is changed along with the
shaft, but this would be the rarity for "typical" cars. You might meet
one that needs to be extracted as one then dismantled on the bench to
get the impeller off.

The bearings and seal are mounted in a single sleeve which is a light
press (or even sliding) fit into the housing. There's usually a small
locking screw or wire clip (Ford cheapskates) which holds it in place.
I've rarely had to brutalise one of these assemblies to get it apart.
Some will only extract from one side - the fan pulley boss is usually
too big to fit through the body.

Re-assembly is usually a bit more careful. It's particularly important
to use a pressing sleeve (piece of pipe, toolbox socket, bit of
lathework) so that you press the _sleeve_ into the pump body, not the
shaft. Pressing on the shaft may hurt the bearings or seal. There may
also be a leakage drain hole that should be carefully re-aligned on
re-assembly.

Fly-presses work by storing momentuum in the whirling fly weights. This
is released on first contact with the press ram. They give a high
impulse at first, but they also don't drive a seal very far with one
wallop. Certainly for pressing bearing races, they're infamous as a
quick way to _really_ screw up the job.


--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

Willy Eckerslyke wrote in message
...

I'll try the mankiest looking water pump first. So what's the procedure
for dismantling - support the pulley and push the shaft through, then
support the body and push the shaft + impeller through?

I don't know the Vitesse water pump, but I have got the workshop manual for
the 2000. If the construction is similar, it proposes the following
dismantling sequence:

1. Undo the nuts and spring washers to remove the bearing housing from the
pump body.
2. Undo the nut, remove washer, and take pulley off the shaft.
3. Remove the impeller from the shaft (Being a workshop manual it quotes
Churchill Tool S.441 but looking at the picture, the tool supports the back
of the impeller with a flat plate and a threaded puller pushes the shaft
through the impeller, while pulling on the plate. The plate looks
substantial - probably to stop it bending and damaging the impeller).
4. Remove the circlip (pulley end) from the housing bore and withdraw the
shaft complete with bearings (It withdraws from the pulley end - push on
the impeller end of the shaft).
5. Remove the bearings, spacer etc from shaft.
6. Remove the sealing gland from the back of the impeller. That gland
normally bears on a gland face on the bearing housing. Check that for score
marks (likely if pump has been leaking) and re-face if necessary (Churchill
Tool S.126 which has a pilot shaft and a cutter. You might be able to
improvise something along valve grinding lines.)

When reassembling, assemble the bearings etc on the shaft, then press into
position: press on the ball race outer with a suitable tube, not the
spindle - you don't want the spindle to move relative to the bearings. Fix
in place by replacing the circlip in the housing groove.
When pressing on the impeller, don't forget to put the sealing gland into
the back of the impeller before you fit it. The impeller is correctly
positioned on the shaft when the gap between the back of the impeller and
the housing is 30 thou (0.76mm if you use metric). Solder the impeller/shaft
join to eliminate the possibility of water leakage along the shaft and under
the impeller.

Good luck!. Though in view of accurate positioning etc, I am not sure a fly
press is a good idea.

Jim

Jim Warren wrote:

snip

positioned on the shaft when the gap between the back of the impeller and
the housing is 30 thou (0.76mm if you use metric). Solder the impeller/shaft
join to eliminate the possibility of water leakage along the shaft and under
the impeller.

Thanks ever so much for typing all that. It certainly sounds worth a
try, so I'll start by stripping the worst looking one. I'm not convinced
about soldering that joint though - that sounds like a recipe for
serious frustration. I wonder if something like Hermetite Red would be
an easier solution.

Good luck!. Though in view of accurate positioning etc, I am not sure a fly
press is a good idea.

OK, I've got the message! I'll see what I can do with a puller. I'd
assumed they were going to be extremely tight so hadn't even considered
it was a job I could do at home.

Andy Dingley wrote:

unfortunately a fly press is all I have access to,

I'm sure you can find more. The force is low, you don't even need a
"press" as such.

Glad to hear that. They just look as though they ought to be tight...

They've often been done with screw-thread pullers or
even a big vice.

snip

Thanks again Andy.
I'll report back once I've had a fiddle.

Fly-presses work by storing momentuum in the whirling fly weights.

I understand. Whenever I've used one, I've managed to shift stuff
without swinging the weights around at speed, instead just using
leverage rather than momentum. This gives more control, but obviously
far less than something like a vice.
Come to think of it, I'm not even certain the weights were in place on
the last one I used. Perhaps technically that meant it wasn't a
fly-press at all.

Willy Eckerslyke wrote in message
...
I'm not convinced
about soldering that joint though - that sounds like a recipe for
serious frustration. I wonder if something like Hermetite Red would be
an easier solution.

Or Araldite if you thoroughly degrease the joint first?

Jim

"Jim Warren" wrote in message
k...

Or Araldite if you thoroughly degrease the joint first?

I wouldn't use Araldite on a joint exposed to heat cycling. A few years ago
I used it to re-affix the plastic nozzles in several hot water taps around
the house. Within a few months the Araldite had become brittle and was
coming away in chunks.
Cheers,
Bill.

"Bill Davies" wrote in message
...

"Jim Warren" wrote in message
k...

Or Araldite if you thoroughly degrease the joint first?

I wouldn't use Araldite on a joint exposed to heat cycling. A few years
ago
I used it to re-affix the plastic nozzles in several hot water taps around
the house. Within a few months the Araldite had become brittle and was
coming away in chunks.
Cheers,
Bill.



Interesting - a few years ago I had a leaking radiator (domestic, not
automotive) which had rusted through at a bottom corner. My bodge was to
wire brush it, which exposed several pin holes, then dip some self tappers
in Araldite and screw them in. Lasted the five or so years I lived there,
and there must have been a fair bit of heat cycling.

Geoff MacK