"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:14:09 +0000 (UTC), "PR"
wrote:

You stick to your Xtrail and you will be happy with it - I will stick
with
my Sorento and I will be happy with it - the only difference is I will
feel
that I have somehow "beaten the system" because everyone else who has
bought
a different vehicle new of the same sort of size and quality, with a nice
3.5v6 engine, auto box, leather, cruise, full time 4x4 plus low ratio box
and loads of other spec will have paid a LOT more for it.

The 3.5v6 causes me a little concern - fuel consumption is probably
nothing to be proud of. What sort of figures do you achieve if you
don't mind me asking?


I get a touch over 20 tootling about - no, its not brilliant, but its better
than some (for example probably 20 to 25% better than the Ssangyong Rexton -
and better than a friend gets from his petrol disco.).

I have 3 vehicles and do not expect to do more than 6000 or so p.a. in the
Sorento so it will only cost me in round terms 50quid more a month than
something that does near to 50mpg.

If I was doing all of my 30000+ miles a year in it I would have bought the
diesel. The v6 is a bit of a luxury, I tried the diesel and it was fine but
the 3.5v6 is obviously much faster and quieter than the 2.5 diesel and costs
the same new so given my mileage in this vehicle I can live with the extra
50/month running cost (the diesel achieves 50% more to the gallon on
average).

Predictions I have seen indicate same residuals for diesel and petrol so it
should be just the fuel difference with any luck.

I think they are selling more petrol versions than they expected based on
what I have seen around here - I think they were expecting 9:1 - but what I
am seeing is obviously just a small sample based on casual observation. Its
easy to be tempted by the 3.5v6 given the price is the same - as long as
mileage is not too high (as long as you want the top spec and auto box -
they only do the petrol in 1 spec and no manual)

The extra weight of the petrol engine makes a big difference to the steering
(sometimes criticised as being too light on the diesel), and I feel there is
a positive effect on the ride as well.

"Chris Burns" wrote in message
...
Certainly Paul, I've owned an X-Trail 2.0 Sport since September and
I'm still ecstatically happy with it. I've had no problems with it at all
(although
I guess there's still time :-)

Its a bit worrying when I pop off for a few days work and come back to a Kia
Vs XTrail fire fight!! )

What I have been doing is looking on the internet using google for basic
searches, the most basic being kia+faults, and to be honest, if you look at
the list of faults and failures Kia have been suffereing over the last five
years, it worries me scared. We all know that the US consumer is a somewhat
fickle beast compared to its UK bretheren, but when you have people in the
US theatening class action suites against Kia and then you see the list of
faults that Kia are being taken to court for (and its mostly safety related
issues), then I feel very justified in looking at all options on all
available types of vehicle before jumping in with both feet.

A word to the wise. My other half, a design engineer by trade (an odd trade
for a woman but there you go) used to work for Daewoo before it went on the
skids. The Korean company policy was to strip and pick to the bone the
competitors cars, and then work out to create a car using all the best ideas
using the cheapest parts, material and design. To get a new possible part
approved, management would tell the staff "show me it on a competitors car,
then we copy" rather than take the lead in design and create something
really innovative. I hear from other sources that most Korean cars are only
good for the first two years, then they slowly start to fall apart. My
father in law used to run a Daewoo before he jumped feet first into the fire
and went for a Hyundai. The feedback from him has been that as cars go, its
ok, but due to the build quality he will only run if for a couple of years
and then get shot of it. I think that privately, he will not admit that he
made a mistake but he does admit that the Hyundai was a worse build quality
that his old Daewoo.

Not having owned a proper far east build car, and that is no gaurantee
looking at Toyota Yaris's these days, the other halfs T-Sport was one of the
last actually built in Japan before production switched to France, I get the
feeling that most users of the X-Trail are very pleased with the quality of
build and how it goes. I think my next move will be to hire one for the
weekend and see if I can live with it, see how it handles my normal everyday
regime.

PDH

"Paul Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Chris Burns" wrote in message
...
Certainly Paul, I've owned an X-Trail 2.0 Sport since September and
I'm still ecstatically happy with it. I've had no problems with it at
all
(although
I guess there's still time :-)

Its a bit worrying when I pop off for a few days work and come back to a
Kia
Vs XTrail fire fight!! )

What I have been doing is looking on the internet using google for basic
searches, the most basic being kia+faults, and to be honest, if you look
at
the list of faults and failures Kia have been suffereing over the last
five
years, it worries me scared. We all know that the US consumer is a
somewhat
fickle beast compared to its UK bretheren, but when you have people in the
US theatening class action suites against Kia and then you see the list of
faults that Kia are being taken to court for (and its mostly safety
related
issues), then I feel very justified in looking at all options on all
available types of vehicle before jumping in with both feet.

A word to the wise. My other half, a design engineer by trade (an odd
trade
for a woman but there you go) used to work for Daewoo before it went on
the
skids. The Korean company policy was to strip and pick to the bone the
competitors cars, and then work out to create a car using all the best
ideas
using the cheapest parts, material and design. To get a new possible part
approved, management would tell the staff "show me it on a competitors
car,
then we copy" rather than take the lead in design and create something
really innovative. I hear from other sources that most Korean cars are
only
good for the first two years, then they slowly start to fall apart. My
father in law used to run a Daewoo before he jumped feet first into the
fire
and went for a Hyundai. The feedback from him has been that as cars go,
its
ok, but due to the build quality he will only run if for a couple of years
and then get shot of it. I think that privately, he will not admit that
he
made a mistake but he does admit that the Hyundai was a worse build
quality
that his old Daewoo.

Not having owned a proper far east build car, and that is no gaurantee
looking at Toyota Yaris's these days, the other halfs T-Sport was one of
the
last actually built in Japan before production switched to France, I get
the
feeling that most users of the X-Trail are very pleased with the quality
of
build and how it goes. I think my next move will be to hire one for the
weekend and see if I can live with it, see how it handles my normal
everyday
regime.

PDH



Personally I ( biasedly ) reccommend a Isuzu Trooper, the 2.8 diesel is veyr
cheap to run and I've done 600Km out of a tank of diesel while for half of
that I was towing a trailer loaded to the gunwales with SCUBA tanks up
hills.

rhys

"rnf2" wrote in message
...

Personally I ( biasedly ) reccommend a Isuzu Trooper, the 2.8 diesel is
veyr
cheap to run and I've done 600Km out of a tank of diesel while for half of
that I was towing a trailer loaded to the gunwales with SCUBA tanks up
hills.

If I just had to haul some of the kit that I move in a car around, then yes,
a Isuzu would be a good move, but I also need a 4x4 that doubles as a family
vehicle. A sort of muxed traffic car if you like.

Having the regular need to move large, lead filled, traction batteries
(amongst other things) in the rear of a standard car over a 250 mile trip, I
can assure you that the average car gets very overtaxed to the extreme. But
then I also need a family car, and the smaller 4x4s seem to be the answer.

PDH

"Paul Hubbard" wrote in message
...


.. We all know that the US consumer is a somewhat
fickle beast compared to its UK bretheren, but when you have people in the
US theatening class action suites against Kia and then you see the list of
faults that Kia are being taken to court for (and its mostly safety
related
issues), then I feel very justified in looking at all options on all
available types of vehicle before jumping in with both feet.

There is some American suing just about every manufaturer for something to
do with just about every product, its a sort of hobby. Why do you think
getting product liability insurance if you want to sell in the states is so
bloody expensive?? Many small and not so small manufacturers wont even sell
to the states for this reason.

I am more interested in the fact that Kia was the fastest growing car brand
in the states last year, as I understand it by some margin. Maybe you think
the Yanks are just looking for even easier ways to sue?


My father in law used to run a Daewoo before he jumped feet first into the
fire
and went for a Hyundai. The feedback from him has been that as cars go,
its
ok, but due to the build quality he will only run if for a couple of years
and then get shot of it. I think that privately, he will not admit that
he
made a mistake but he does admit that the Hyundai was a worse build
quality
that his old Daewoo.

I cant personally say that I like Hyundai models, but August 2003 Which
shows based on their sampling (and whatever you think of which, they do no a
thing or two about statistical sampling) that Hyundai was second of all
manufacturers for reliability. Can argue all day about exactly how accurate
this is, but it is fair to assume that a brand that is unreliable is not
going to come that high up - and it is a certaintly that they are not just
looking at new cars under 2 years old.

Hyundai are the only manufacturer to offer a 5 year warranty.

Later in another report it is interesting to nothe that peoples experience
with Kia dealers for both buying and servicing was right amongst the very
top. I would suggest that this would be hard to achieve if reliability was a
problem.


Not having owned a proper far east build car, and that is no gaurantee
looking at Toyota Yaris's these days, the other halfs T-Sport was one of
the
last actually built in Japan before production switched to France, I get
the
feeling that most users of the X-Trail are very pleased with the quality
of
build and how it goes. I think my next move will be to hire one for the
weekend and see if I can live with it, see how it handles my normal
everyday
regime

That is a good idea, test drives, even extended ones, dont tell the whole
story.

Just remember that in Total Caravan this month they have their 4x4 of the
year awards.

The X-trail is in the Medium Sized group and comes third out of 4 (with
positioning having some general link to pricing).

The Kia Sorento is in the "Large" group and comes 1st out of 4 - with 2nd
and 4th positions going to vehicles costing twice the price and third to a
vehicle costing 50% more.

If you are happy with a vehicle that comes 3rd out of 4 in a smaler sized
group and costs more than the vehicle that came 1st out of 4 in the next
group up against copmpetition costing twice the money, then fine. Its your
money, and you buy what you are happiest with!


PDH

"rnf2" wrote

Personally I ( biasedly ) reccommend a Isuzu Trooper, the 2.8 diesel
is veyr
cheap to run and I've done 600Km out of a tank of diesel while for
half of
that I was towing a trailer loaded to the gunwales with SCUBA tanks
up
hills.

rhys



You should know that the Trooper is no longer built [but will be
available for some time due to a large stockpile built before June
03]. That there is no replacement. That a 2.8 diesel has not been
available in the UK fitted in a trooper for the last 10 years.

Huw


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"Huw" wrote in message
...

"rnf2" wrote

Personally I ( biasedly ) reccommend a Isuzu Trooper, the 2.8 diesel
is veyr
cheap to run and I've done 600Km out of a tank of diesel while for
half of
that I was towing a trailer loaded to the gunwales with SCUBA tanks
up
hills.

rhys



You should know that the Trooper is no longer built [but will be
available for some time due to a large stockpile built before June
03]. That there is no replacement. That a 2.8 diesel has not been
available in the UK fitted in a trooper for the last 10 years.

Huw

I know of the trooper no long being built, in favour of a monocouce(sp) made
in USA freelander type clone. But the stockpile means they're going VERY
cheap. and they last pretty near forever.

I didn't know about the 2.8 I've seen 99 and 00's here in NZ with the 2.8
from factory, they were kept as an option in Japan long after they were
discontinued as a stock engine in favour of the 3.1.

besides the 3.0, now it is over the "new technology" teething hump is
supposed to be more efficient and more powerfull than the 2.8 or the 3.1. I
haven't driven one myself yet.

As to parts for those discontinued troopers, you can still get new factory
parts for 1984 models... no need to worry about getting parts for the 03's
in years to come.

rhys

"rnf2" wrote in message
...

"Huw" wrote in message
...

"rnf2" wrote

Personally I ( biasedly ) reccommend a Isuzu Trooper, the 2.8
diesel
is veyr
cheap to run and I've done 600Km out of a tank of diesel while
for
half of
that I was towing a trailer loaded to the gunwales with SCUBA
tanks
up
hills.

rhys



You should know that the Trooper is no longer built [but will be
available for some time due to a large stockpile built before June
03]. That there is no replacement. That a 2.8 diesel has not been
available in the UK fitted in a trooper for the last 10 years.

Huw

I know of the trooper no long being built, in favour of a
monocouce(sp) made
in USA freelander type clone.

Only pick-up's are being imported to UK.


But the stockpile means they're going VERY
cheap.

The stockpile is why production was discontinued. They sold very
slowly but steadily.




and they last pretty near forever.



Mine is certainly not wearing well. It started to drop apart at around
6 years old. Not major mechanical items but electrics and trim plus
shocks and things. The electrics are the worst. Switches are very
prone to failure and parts are frighteningly expensive in the UK. The
chassis also rusts horribly in the UK while the body is very well made
and rust free. It is a nice drive with either 3.1 or more efficient
3.0.


I didn't know about the 2.8 I've seen 99 and 00's here in NZ with
the 2.8
from factory, they were kept as an option in Japan long after they
were
discontinued as a stock engine in favour of the 3.1.

besides the 3.0, now it is over the "new technology" teething hump
is
supposed to be more efficient and more powerfull than the 2.8 or the
3.1. I
haven't driven one myself yet.


It is certainly a powerful and efficient engine. About average or
worse for reliablity but repairing it is a very specialist job and
takes time. It is therefore very expensive when it does go.
Also, even my 3.1 model of 1992 is problematic to repair. The abs
failed on mine and it has proved impossible to repair because no one
seems to possess the computer interface to interogate the system!



As to parts for those discontinued troopers, you can still get new
factory
parts for 1984 models... no need to worry about getting parts for
the 03's
in years to come.


Dealerships are likely to drop the marque due to a lack of new
products to sell and therefore new owners will likely be up a creek
without a paddle when it comes to parts and repair within a
surprisingly short time. For this reason, I would not touch a new one
with a barge pole at any price as things stand.

Huw


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